Cedar Point Announces Valravn - Dive Coaster for 2016 - 10 World Records!

Ripcord said:

Where were you talking to Tony?

I'll give you one guess...

Here is my guess - urinals #1 and #3 (have to maintain separation) in the Magnum restroom.

What's my prize for guessing correctly?

Ripcord said:

Where were you talking to Tony?

At lunch during Fall Freak Out.

Thanks

You mean, you weren't talking to him over pancakes?

As far as Cedar Point not being a family park goes, from looking at the list of rides, aren't nearly 50 of them what most of us would consider kiddie and/or family rides? I seem to remember going to the county fair for a week, when I was younger and loving every minute of walking down the dirt midways and riding crappy carnival rides.
I can't imagine a whole lot of kids going to Cedar Point and saying "This place sucks!"

Thabto said:

Today, I jokingly asked Tony about an above ground tunnel, and he jokingly said they will go down to the local Menard's and get blue tarps if it would make the ride experience that much better.

I think a brown tarp would match the coaster better...

codeGR said:
Based on these renderings, I was surprised to see how close Valravn will be to Sky Ride north station and Coasters.

Given the leaked layout, this was probably the second most interesting thing about the announcement (un-dead end-ing the BS midway being the first) in my opinion.

Looking at how the Main Midway will no longer gradually merge into Celebration Plaza/Iron Dragon Midway, and might instead sort of push the herd toward CS, I'll be interested to see what, if any, impact there is on traffic flow in that area.

I think a small walkway connecting the marina entrance and celebration plaza would help alleviate traffic congestion around skyride station.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Twitter. I like to live dangerously.

Zoug68 said:

I can't imagine a whole lot of kids going to Cedar Point and saying "This place sucks!"

I don't think my six-year-old, 47 3/4 inch, son would say that. But, he again left CP slightly disappointed on Labor Day weekend. We had taken him on Memorial Day weekend and neither Thunder Canyon nor Shoot the Rapids were open for the season yet, two of the few rides with a 46" restriction. On Labor Day Sunday, Thunder Canyon was already closed for conversion and Shoot the Rapids was an hour wait. We waited it out for him, and then tried to get the kids on the bridge to Snake River Falls, but were denied access via the exit ramp. Apparently you must go through the ride to get on the bridge. Since he was too small, no other water rides for him.

He refuses to ride almost anything in Planet Snoopy or Camp Snoopy because "they are for babies." I did get him on Tilt-a-Whirl when I told him it used to be one of my and his grandfather's favorites and his mom got him on Woodstock's Airmail, but he even refused to ride Woodstock Express, Wilderness Run, or Pipe Scream because they aren't thrilling enough for him.

He did ride Matterhorn (twice), Sky Ride (round trip), Ocean Motion, Super Himalaya, Monster, Lake Erie Eagles, Troika, Dodgem (with Mom) and we took the train through Boneville. We also stopped for 10-15 minutes to watch Off Kilter. But, there were entire swaths of the park where there was little for him to do. For instance, if the water rides are closed or otherwise a no-go for your family, the Antique Cars and the CP&LE are the only rides from the Sky Ride to the Snoopy Bounce via the Frontier Trail for somebody under 48", and those require a supervising companion.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:

I also call BS that this coaster is the direct result of data analysis and market research. This addition is the same, repeated formula they've used since 1989. There is nothing "research based" in this addition except from the proven results they've seen before. Will they see a 3% surge in attendance?? Sure they will. Quit asking the teenage guests what they want. Venture out of the park and ask people who ARENT coming to the park why they aren't coming.

First of all, I want to say that I'm not criticizing your point here. I just legitimately have a few questions about it.

What makes you think that Mr. Ouimet is doing things exactly the same way as the old regime? Is it possible that Ouimet had his own research done and determined that this is the best thing for the park at this time? I'd say it seems likely. He doesn't seem like the type to be "Eh, we'll try this and see what happens."

Also, if they see a 3% surge in attendance, isn't it likely that at least a decent amount of that is people who weren't going to the park previously? I think as a business, if you can increase your attendance/spending by 1% and they're all new people, I'd say that's a win.

By my count, there are 11 rides in the park that have a height requirement greater than 48". That's roughly 15% of the rides. Considering an under 48" ticket is 20% cheaper (or more, based on regular prices) than a full-priced ticket, I'd say that's a fair deal.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:

I also call BS that this coaster is the direct result of data analysis and market research. This addition is the same, repeated formula they've used since 1989. There is nothing "research based" in this addition except from the proven results they've seen before.

As far as market research, I remember back in the mid-80s being approached by a park employee with a clipboard doing market research. One of the questions was what my favorite type of ride was (roller coaster) and what would I like to see CP build next. My answer was a really large roller coaster, maybe over 200 feet tall. So, the "repeated formula" I'm sure was made through market research that showed a lot of people wanted a big roller coaster and Magnum probably was built as a result of that. I'm sure that continues to this day. I would not dismiss this addition as not something done through market research.

I personally think that Valravn will make a nice addition to the coaster lineup at Cedar Point for many of the same reasons that others have already listed in this thread. It'll offer some spectacular views, the dive element is something that most people haven't experienced yet, and it will add capacity. Having said that, with the addition of Gatekeeper in 2013 and the Mantis to Rougarou conversion in 2015 I think that this year would have been an excellent opportunity to build a new coaster geared more toward families with younger kids.

Cedar Point is more than just a collection of roller coasters, but for the moment I'm going to focus on that aspect of the park since the announcement involved a new coaster. If you have someone in your family who is under 48" they can ride the following coasters at the "Roller Coaster Capital of the World"

Pipe Scream
Woodstock Express
Wilderness Run

Of those, Pipe Scream and Woodstock Express can also be ridden by adults. From my experience the seats on Woodstock Express are pretty tight on space and can be challenging for some adults to ride. Pipe Scream is fun, but it spins and that means that many adults (like my wife) don't want to ride it because it'll make them sick. Also, I don't think that many people view Pipe Scream as a roller coaster but I included it in the discussion since Cedar Point counts it in their lineup.

Now, here's the list of coasters that cannot be ridden together by families who have a child under 48" in height:

48" minimum height requirement:

Blue Streak
Corkscrew
Cedar Creek Mine Ride
Gemini
Iron Dragon
Magnum XL
Mean Streak
Millennium Force

52" Minimum Height Requirement

Gatekeeper
Maverick
Top Thrill Dragster
Wicked Twister

54" Minimum Height Requirement

Raptor
Rougarou

On a side note, it's interesting that the height requirement for a "regular" ticket is 48" yet 6 (probably 7 when Valravn opens) of the main attractions may not be available to certain guests depending on their height. Next year if we renew our passes we'll have to upgrade to the regular season pass for our youngest daughter since she just reached 48" yet she won't have access to over 1/3 of the coasters.

Is Cedar Point a family-friendly park? I guess the answer depends on the height of your family members. If all of your family members are over 48" then most of the park including the roller coasters can be enjoyed by everyone. If you have someone that is less than 48" tall then you either spend your time apart or you limit yourself to certain flat rides and the kiddie areas.

If they had chosen to build a new family-friendly coaster and could somehow ease the restrictions on rides like Iron Dragon and the CCMR then I think the park would feel a lot more balanced for certain guests.

jsmith7300 said:

...I think that this year would have been an excellent opportunity to build a new coaster geared more toward families with younger kids.

I agree that they need more family-friendly stuff, but I'm curious, what are some examples of a family-friendly coaster? Other than perhaps a wild mouse, I can't really come up with much that the park doesn't already have.

Of those, Pipe Scream and Woodstock Express can also be ridden by adults.

So too can Wilderness Run.

Is Cedar Point a family-friendly park? I guess the answer depends on the height of your family members.

Exactly right. Our daughter just turned 3, so now she needs a ticket to get into the park, but at 38", she can't do much more than she could on our last visit, when she was still 2. That kind of sucks. I realize it would be an enforcement nightmare, but it would seem that admission for the junior ticket should be based on height, rather than age.

Pete said:

As far as market research, I remember back in the mid-80s being approached by a park employee with a clipboard doing market research.

Thats so '80s. I was approached by someone with an iPad back in the spring. I honestly dont recall all the questions but seemed pretty general. I know 1 question was if I was a season pass holder and how often I visit the park.

djDaemon said:
Other than perhaps a wild mouse, I can't really come up with much that the park doesn't already have.

A wild mouse is probably near the top of my list. KI, Carowinds, and Canada's Wonderland have nice Vekoma inverts which are 44" (My son really liked the one in Canada). Hershey has a PTC Woodie, an Arrow minetrain, and a Schwarzkopf looper. All have a 42" restriction. Those are just some options.

I'm really just tired of all the complaints that CP isn't really gearing toward "family" oriented attractions in 2016. I'm sure the next 4 years (until 2020) will be more "family" oriented. We can't have a brand new $15 Million dollar coaster and a bunch of kiddie attractions to please everyone at once.

I say "Family" because my family consists of adrenaline junkies... calling a little kiddie ride a "family" attraction is debatable as all families enjoy different things.

I think you misinterpret observations for complaints.

And you are correct. In a couple months, my son will be 48" tall and we won't care as much about the lack of mid-size thrill rides. I think CP does fine in the "kiddie" category. In fact, I like how the areas for the real young are spread throughout the park compared to "the world's best kids area" at KI which is back in it's own corner. I'm just documenting what my family has found is lacking for the "almost there" group of kids. My family has been to five amusement parks in the past 15 months, four of which are CF parks, and CP and KI are currently at the bottom of my son's list.

It will be interesting to see what his opinion of his bottom parks are after he hits 48".