Witches' Wheel Removal Speculation

Well since this has evolved from Witches Wheel to love/hate Magnum I'll post this here.

You can put me in the camp that think Magnum is fine the way it is. When it opened almost 30 years ago, I never dreamed that I would be able to get as many rides on it as I do now. We're talking about a ride that when it opened was a consistent 2+ hour wait. If it stays the way it is for another 30 years I'll be fine with that.

That said, in recent years when riding it I have seen other guests doing the whole ouch and moan thing. I even try to give them advice before hand about tightening the seat belt as much as possible to help out. Clearly there is a significant portion of the population that doesn't enjoy it as much as I do.

So IF Cedar Point decided to do "something" to Magnum, I would be ok with them doing something similar to what Kennywood did with Phantom's Revenge trains. Not the whole re-tracking thing. My understanding is that Morgan basically refurbished the old Arrow trains, removed the OTSR, and basically made the trains much more pleasant. I know Morgan isn't in business anymore, and I have no idea if Chance would be interested in a project like that, but I would be ok with a change like that. At the very least it is preferable to the whole idea of them re-profiling the ride.

Now that I think about it, the trains on Steel Force seemed pretty decent too, although that ride isn't nearly as forceful as Phantom's Revenge or Magnum.

I agree with operative_me and believe it would be a welcome improvement to use new trains on Magnum (especially one that uses restraints similar to those used on Phantom's Revenge)

The Phantom’s Revenge does use Arrow wheels assemblies, axles, and frames (looping trains not mine trains) with new fiberglass bodies thus eliminating the OTSR and keeping the 2+2 low-pro cars. Chance rides’ Lightning Run (?) at Kentucky Kingdom looks amazing. Although looks can be deceiving. The trains looks amazing as does the track. In my opinion, THIS is the best option for a Magnum XL 200.1 refurbishment. Keeping most of Arrow supports and footers. Smoothing the course and providing modern seating arrangements. A win win win

Magnum doesn't need improvements. Its been an awesome ride for almost 30 years now!!

Exactly right, Magnum has been perfection since 1989. Track smoothing would be a horrific modification.

I agree. I'm just saying that if CP decided to do SOMETHING, I'd be ok with some sort of refurb of the trains as opposed to something more drastic.

Okay, I'm kind of on the fence with this one.

On one hand, I love Magnum. It's what got me back into coasters in 2016(I don't know what happened between when geauga lake closed and then), and it actually has a strong layout. The track and trains look amazing as well, and Magnum delivers great airtime. This ride is almost 30 years old, so of course it would have gotten rough with age. Let's also add on there that Magnum was designed before the era of computer design. I don't mind a little bit of bumping here and there, but when a coaster causes you physical pain or you have to ride it a certain way or in a certain seat then that is not acceptable in my book. I actually came off Magnum XL 200 with a headache once. Worst ride night of my life.

But I would be okay with some refurbishment and some smoothing on Magnum for the 30th anniversary. Seriously, if Magnum ever became as rough as Mean Streak probably was I think this whole forum would probably go ballistic.

If causing a headache once while riding is cause for removal, out with Rougaroo and blue streak as well.

I actually don't want Magnum to be removed. Just smooth out a couple offending spots(that trim brake before the pretzel turnaround) and Magnum would be a 10/10 instead of 9.5/10. Seriously though, if you guys want to talk about headaches/headbangers, forget Blue Streak and Rougarou. I rode Corkscrew, and it was PAINFUL. I did it once last year with healing helix piercings(2 months into healing, long story) and I did it once this year without any of my earrings in and Magnum feels like a smooth intamin by comparison.

^^Along with half of all coasters, period.

I’m one of Magnum’s biggest fans. I worked it for three of my five seasons at the park. That said, if it ever came down to the park removing Magnum or reprofiling/getting new trains/track, I’d have to go with the changes. And if those changes opened the ride up to more people enjoying it (even if it was at the cost of some of the quirkiness that makes it so great in MY eyes) I guess it would be a win.

But please don’t change a thing unless it’s absolutely necessary.

As far as I can tell, Magnum is just as smooth as when new. It may change a little from time to time based on the condition of the wheels but there is no vibration to speak of. The "roughness" is just how the profile is designed which is of course what I love about it.

Back when Steel Force was new, several coaster friends whose opinions I think I understand told me how they preferred Steel Force to Magnum XL-200 because of its smoother profile. I thought about it and concluded that I would probably prefer Magnum XL-200 to Steel Force for *precisely the same reason*.

Once I finally rode Steel Force I observed that was indeed the case.

Augustmueller said:
... Chance rides’ Lightning Run (?) at Kentucky Kingdom looks amazing. Although looks can be deceiving. The trains looks amazing as does the track. In my opinion, THIS is the best option for a Magnum XL 200.1 refurbishment. Keeping most of Arrow supports and footers. Smoothing the course and providing modern seating arrangements. A win win win

Oh, good $DEITY no!

I can tell you have not ridden Lightning Run.

The train on Lightning Run is a horrible piece of unmitigated fuvg. Okay, it has a cool looking 'hood'. But I like Magnum's distinctive "windshield" better.

The transitions on Lightning Run are at least as severe as the ones on Magnum XL-200, if not more so. The one difference is that you don't have as much low-level bouncing around because of the full-contact wheel sets that eliminate some of that, at the cost of robbing the train of some of its energy.

The seats are the old-style (pre-2018) RMC seats and the lap bars are similar. So you have a horn in the middle of the seat, and a rod across the seat back. The lap bar is oversized, hydraulic, and extra-tight, to the point that I almost can't get it closed "enough" to ride. The ankle restraints hold your feet back in a most unnatural position in a space smaller than the diameter of my leg. The lap bar is too big to hold on, and too tight to slip your hand in underneath anyway. There is no grab bar on the lap bar or anywhere else in the car. The lap bar also has a wedge on the bottom that doesn't quite coordinate with the horn on the front of the seat. This means that at least for someone of my size, this seat was carefully engineered to generate as much pain as possible *before the ride even starts*.

Now, I am not sure that the airtime hills on Lightning Run are any stronger that the ones on Magnum, and they certainly don't last as long. But because you are firmly pinned to the seat, you are forced into the lap bar much harder than on Magnum (where you can come up an inch or two first) with the added bonus of having your dangly bits alternately slammed into the wedge on the bottom of the lap bar, then dropped onto the seat horn.

I'm telling you, nobody builds a decent steel coaster train anymore, and RMC are about the worst in the business. The performance standards today's designers seem to want to apply result in features that are making rides unaccommodating, uncomfortable, and downright unpleasant to ride. I want to like Lightning Run and the various RMC coasters I have ridden (Storm Chaser, Lightning Rod, Twisted Colossus, Steel Vengeance), but those seats are such total garbage that I really don't enjoy the ride much at all.

(Lightning Run was engineered by Ride Centerline, hence its similarities to RMC coasters; also Chance didn't have a train for the track they built, and with their relationship with Ride Centerline it's not surprising that RMC's seat design ended up on Lightning Run.)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I agree with those posts above that Magnum is perfect the way it is, and awesome! The only thing needed done would be to restore the lift hill chasing strobes.

I had a feeling Lightning Run’s trains might be similar to RMC. Rats.
New track + Phantom’s Revenge style trains with windshields and storm trooper faces. Final answer.

I’m a lifelong perpetual perfectionist. I just see what could be. The good news is my favorite coaster is located in the same park so we all can love life just as it exists today.

: shifting gears :

CoasterBob62 videos are my go to for stellar park shots and footage. While the recent HalloWeekend video is great, It pains me to see trees gone at the Witches Wheel site. Would love to see the park begin a policy that for every one tree to come down, three (or more) Cedar trees go up. .. after an aggressive campaign to add hundreds, if not thousands of Cedars in one off season. The main midway can be the concrete jungle. Smother everything else in Cedar.

I still think something like this is coming to the space....

https://www.worldsoffun.com/play/drinks-dining/boathouse-grill

That building looks exactly like the Coney BBQ at KI. But I don't know if they would put in another BBQ place, they already have Famous Daves and the Smokehouse.

^And the same one they just put in at Cedar Point Shores...lol

I'm thinking some sort of standard pavilion and that's all that really needs to go there. People that are expecting a new flat ride I think are expecting too much. CP lacks a nice pavilion these days that is open to the public (Lakeside Pavilion doesn't count because its for events only). The ones in the front of the park are a disgrace. I'm really surprised they haven't done anything with them. The current ones should be converted to something like Harmony Hall. But for the Witches Wheel location, a standard one would do. Some nice landscaping around it and it would finish off the new entrance there

So something that will encourage dry park guests to park in the CPS lot so they can bring their coolers over to the pavilion for lunch/dinner?