Will Diamondback overshadow CP in 2009?

ChrisC. said:

Geauga Lake could never be the size of Cedar Point. It didn't even survive being less than half the size of the point.

Actually when Six Flags owned GL it was Bigger and had more for the whole family like animal shows, intense rollercoasters, and a good water park!

^First of all with Geagua Lake. the point that was already made on this post was that it would never survive if it was as big as Cedar Point. That is true since Six Flags ran that park into the ground. CP reduced it and tried to save what they could.

With the whole Kings Island/Cedar Point thing. They are the same company. Cedar Point is and always will be considered the "best amusement park on the planet" or the "roller coaster capital of the world" Cedar Fair will not ever let Kings Island beat that. They don't need there own parks overshadowing each other. They will always put most of there money into CP to insure that it doesn't change.

As far as the coasters go there is no comparison to CP, although Kings Island hands down has a better collection of Woodies. The Beast, although maybe slightly overrated for 2008 is still a fantastic roller coaster, and beats Mean Streak any day(even if MS had no trims). As far as the Racer goes, it is so similar to Blue Streak accept it has 2 sides(more fun if it would still go backwards, but it doesn't anymore so don't compare Blue Streak with the backwards Racer). In terms of "racing" coasters, Cedar Point wins. Gemini is a masterpiece and defines what racing coasters should be. They run so close together(i realize some dispatches are off and like this year the races are sometimes screwed up by different chain speeds) and change leads throughout the course. You can interact with the other train almost the entire ride, and the first drop is one of the best out there. The Racer only races for half the time and it will always be the same result, since it is the same course.

Next year Diamondback will be a fun ride. At first it might overshadow Millie and Magnum(notice i didn't say CP), but after everyone has ridden it, it won't be good enough to continue to overshadow Millie and Magnum. If i am wrong though, at least beat Superman with the rankings. God i hate Six flags and everything about it.

I guess I'll jump in here as the KI fan. KI has been and always will be my 'home' park and my favorite park, being that I grew up 45 minutes away from it and visited it every year (my first CP visit was shortly after my 18th birthday) and worked there for two summers. I do have to say that CP is a better park as far as ride choice and theming, because Paramount drove KI into the ground on both those counts. All they did was take out flat rides (like the antique cars and monorail) to put in mediocre roller coasters (BLSC, Invertigo, and, dare I say it, Son of Beast) or leave the space empty, such as the former locations of Flight Commander, Flying Eagles and even the laser tag building, which are either flat out abandoned as they sat (Flight Commander, the queue area for which is still in place and mostly in tact) and just sitting there taking up space or has a game haphazardly plopped into it. Cedar Point has a great collection of flat rides to keep you entertained during busy times or when your spouse gets temporarily coastered-out, as well as great shows, a good water park (I think CP's is better than KI's but that may be a "been there too much" bias) and things that KI can't even compare to, such as their own beach, and stunning views of Lake Erie from all over the park.

Now, to the real question, will Diamondback overshadow CP? In my opinion, no. Those who want to ride Diamondback but whose home park is CP will make a trip or two to KI that they wouldn't have normally, but still go to CP, probably the same amount of times they would have gone normally. Those who couldn't care either way, will stay at CP. Those for whom KI is their home park, such as myself, will still continue to go to CP because they want to ride the unique collection of rides at CP. Because even if a park really has nothing to offer besides roller coasters (Holiday World comes to mind) or even if their roller coasters are nothing spectacular (SFKK) people will still visit it because each park is unique and they want to experience the rides they can experience only in that park.

And, for the record, KI's woodies put CP's to shame. The Racer is not on the same league as Gemini (steel and wood are not comparitive) but is infinately smoother and feels faster than Blue Streak. The Beast is flat out the BEST wooden roller coaster in the world in my opinion (as well as many unbiased source's opinions) and if you've never ridden it at night, don't make any judgements on it until you do. Son of Beast and Mean Streak are both in their own category, however ... and I have no hesitation in naming that category as "miserable failures." Son of Beast without the loop is just a giant disappointment. At least when the loop was there, you rode it at least for the novelty of it, now there's just no point.

Watching Diamondbacks progress from last year to this year I am real excited about the ride. It reminds me alot of Nitro at SFGrtAdv which is one of my fav steels :)

Since KI is actually my home park and only 1.45 from us it will be a safe bet we will probably be heading to KI alot more than CP next season. Or until we get sick of Diamondback.

As most have said KI is not in competition with CP-2 totally different areas. I would think HW would be more of a threat to KI than CP. I dont think DB going to effect crowds at CP next season, but I do anticipate it will bring more people to KI.
JMHO

Jo
Lifetime Raptor flights: 1366 :)

But Jo, Won't your beloved Raptor get mighty jealous you're riding another ride?

bholcomb said:
But Jo, Won't your beloved Raptor get mighty jealous you're riding another ride?

What Raptor doesn't know isn't going to hurt him! ;)
At least it's another B&M! :)

Jo

violakat03 said:
...because Paramount drove KI into the ground on both those counts.

What is it with Kings Island fanboys who say this all of the time? Paramount put ridiculous amounts of capital into that park and it would have been a shadow of its current self without them.

Jeff said:

Your mom is to fat to ride TTD. said:
For me, Millennium has no air at all. I never ever have flown out of my seat on Mille.

Please. What ride are you getting on? You float the whole way down the first drop and the third hill has as much as ten straight seconds of airtime.

http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/park/rides/coasters/millennium_force/index.cfm

This is the ride I get on. The whole time I'm on it all I want to do is ride this ride: http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/park/rides/coasters/magnum/index.cfm

Now thats real airtime.

Troll, fanboy, etc.

LuvRaptor said:

As most have said KI is not in competition with CP-2 totally different areas. I would think HW would be more of a threat to KI than CP.

I think HW isn't as big a threat because it's only got basically 3 coasters. Yes, they're great, amazing wooden coasters (and definitely competition to KI's coasters as far as greatness is concerned) but it's in a less-populated area and for those in the Dayton area like myself, you're looking at a 3 hour drive compared to an hour for a smaller park. If I'm going to drive for 3 hours to get to a park, I'm going to drive to CP, personally, though I do want to get at least one ride in on the Voyage sometime in my near future.

Jeff - a lot of us 'fanboys' (or girls ;) ) as you put it, claim this because we remember what KI was like pre-Paramount, and feel that Paramount only cared about certain aspects of the park while ignoring others. Yes, they did add some great rides, like Top Gun, Flight of Fear, and Drop Zone, but they also neglected all the theming immediately after it was installed (I've never ridden Top Gun/Flight Deck or Italian Job/BLSC with the fog effects working, even the year BLSC opened), removed shows and beloved rides without replacing them with something new or different, and most of us feel they simply made it into overglorified movie advertisements. I think they were most interested in getting into a coaster competition with CP and forgot that KI is a family park. I've seen nothing but good coming out of the CF ownership - the park is cleaner, the employees are friendlier, the theming is starting to get revamped and coming back to life, and we're getting the first truly exciting ride in 9 years - because Son of Beast was really the last install that got anyone enthused.

violakat03 said:

Son of Beast was really the last install that got anyone enthused.

Sad but true.

Overall, I think Paramount did a decent job with Kings Island. They added a lot of thrills during their tenure.

But they also added a lot of concrete (see Action Zone). So long, theming. The shrub clock by the Eiffel Tower, the giant hanging basket by the pond... all gone. But it's still a pretty park. International Street is still picturesque, and Viking Fury is one of the best viking ships I've seen. So I think Paramount left it in good shape for CF to improve.

^^ Kind of ironic that you mention that. Cedar Point's only weak point is themeing and lighting if they have one. Paramount being the company they are, one would think that much like Disney they would have poor to OK rides at best, and excellent theming, which makes the rides seem like something they are not. But in reality Cedar Fair isn't so bad at theming, since KI has only immproved on it. All KI was turning into was a huge movie advertizement and Cedar Fair is exactly what that park needed. I thought the ironic park is that many people would say that CF lacks theming in CP and needs to dramatically improve it.

^ I would say that Cedar Point has more than "weak point."

^^ I honestly think that Cedar Fair isn't as bad about theming as they're made out to be - certainly not as bad as Paramount was! I mean, the fog still works on Iron Dragon, the sound effects still work on TTD (and I'm honestly glad the fake engine and wheels were replaced with additional seating), and the animatronics still work and look good on the train and boat rides. As compared to KI, where the fog, as I've already said, doesn't work on Flight Deck or BLSC, the animatronics and other theming from the train is long gone and there is just a shell of the western town that used to be there, Flight of Fear's launch sound effects don't work anymore (or if they do, you can't hear them) and the tunnel strobes were off until after the buyout, and along with the mysteriously missing fog, BLSC's splashdown disappeared in the same summer it opened.

So .. three cheers for CF's theming!

TopThrillChris said:
^^ much like Disney they would have poor to OK rides at best, and excellent theming

Someone apparently doesn't get to Disney very much.

As I've said before, after having ridden Behemoth and then watching the Diamondback video, I've got a feeling alot of people are gonna love this new ride. Don't rule it out yet just because it is not at our favorite park. I'm just glad I won't need a passport to ride this type of coaster next year. Might actually be a good reason to buy the platinum pass.

What I don't get is that TTD has good theme, Maverick does, the kiddie parks have good peanuts theme, and they do an excellent job with Halloween decorations. But Disaster transport just is horrible and the theme is coming apart and doesn't make any sense, especially for newcomers to the park. If CP can theme all the other things listed above, then why can't they just fix, even the major things, the theme in DT. It's like they just neglected it, and the only care they give it is inspecting it and when maintenance fixes the ride, but not the theme. Paramount actually knew how to theme rides when it owned the park. It was movies, but it made sense and added to the rides. Disney also knows how to theme rides, same with Universal parks. To me, DT is a rip off of Star wars and if they can't keep up with it, than they should remove it all together, whether or not they use the building for storage.

Cedar Point needs to add something unique like a B&M flyer. Go ahead and make it the tallest, fastest, and longest while you're at it. But please, for god's sake, no more Intamin for a while.

Yeah, they should put in a crappy gimmicky ride, rather than a fun, entertaining one, all because the public gets bored with rides from the same manufacturer after a while.

Miss_Maverick07 said:
What I don't get is that TTD has good theme

Thanks for the laugh. Usually, if dragster goes vertical, it is NOT a good thing.

I still can't figure out why an Aircraft Carrier theme was not used. At least jets are SUPPOSED to go vertical.