Wicked Twister- next on the chopping block?

I guess it depends on what a person's definition of popular is. I see August's point of view and I think that ride capacity has to be accounted for in some manner. I know that my family is more inclined to ride a coaster that has no line as compared to a coaster that has a long line. Gatekeeper and Maverick fall into these categories. We view these coasters as equals as far as the ride quality but when we see a 60 minute line for Maverick we pass as we know we can get on Gatekeeper much quicker than that, usually 5 minutes at most. Does that make Gatekeeper more popular? By shear numbers I guess it does but I am not sure the numbers tell the whole story. In fact it seems to me that an argument can be made that Maverick is more popular than Gatekeeper by the shear fact that people are willing to stand in line for it for rather long periods of time when they could easily choose another coaster that has a much shorter wait.

jscll said:
Corkscrew does have a low cost per rider going for it, and the ride does have decent capacity. (When it ran three trains, it had insane capacity. But due to the redundant harness belt, reduced staffing, and the Arrow dance being seen as dangerous, we will never see the third train again. Of course, an automated harness release would remove the need for the Arrow dance, but it may not be feasible without replacing the rolling stock.)
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The park could have the current trains modified if they so desired it's not super complex to create electrical contact points and place an updated harness control system in place. Look at wicked twister where you can see the electrical contacts raise and lower. The hardest part is adapting them to allow for a flexibility of the stoping point of the train. Corkscrew is not as exact as more modern coasters as stopping in a precise point as more modern coasters.

Shades said:

I know that my family is more inclined to ride a coaster that has no line as compared to a coaster that has a long line. Gatekeeper and Maverick fall into these categories. We view these coasters as equals as far as the ride quality but when we see a 60 minute line for Maverick we pass as we know we can get on Gatekeeper much quicker than that, usually 5 minutes at most. Does that make Gatekeeper more popular?

So, coasters with shorter lines are more popular with your group, and you're asking if capacity plays a role in popularity? *head explodes*

...an argument can be made that Maverick is more popular than Gatekeeper by the shear fact that people are willing to stand in line for it for rather long periods of time when they could easily choose another coaster that has a much shorter wait.

Everyone in line at park close gets to ride.

If guests choose Not Maverick over Maverick because Maverick's line is too long, Not Maverick is still more popular!

*head explodes again*

jscll said:

When it ran three trains, it had insane capacity. But due to the redundant harness belt, reduced staffing, and the Arrow dance being seen as dangerous, we will never see the third train again. Of course, an automated harness release would remove the need for the Arrow dance, but it may not be feasible without replacing the rolling stock.)

A bit of that is true for reduced capacity, but not all. However, two trains now is more efficient than three trains in the current iteration. The pedals aren't the slow part, the crews can get those unlocked pretty quick. I was able to get a train in 4 ish seconds my year. That four seconds isn't the make/break between dispatches. Belts and bins are the largest hindrance. Policies are now a very close third. Why they modified some things on the platform for the sake of "safety" are just ridiculous. (Load and Unload #2 I'm looking at you)

djDaemon said:

*head explodes*

Best news I have heard all day!

I do realize that it is a capacity issue and does break down more than the average coaster at the point, but I sure would hate to see WT go anywhere. In my opinion, it's either the #1 or #2 most underrated in the entire park, and it also takes up a relatively small footprint. Such a shame if it were to leave IMO.

I know that you don't like that redundant walk back that we do Devarious. I am honestly not the biggest fan either but I can't tell you how many times I have seen a guest unbuckle their safety belt or a scared kid or even a mechanical issue with the ride on that inspection.

I fully agree with you on the bins though. They eat up so much time. Almost every train I have to wait for people to get back to their seats. Even worse are the people who need to be unlocked to put their stuff in the bins when we are checking them.

To whoever mentioned the auto-restraints: That will not happen without a controls overhaul on the ride. I have seen Corkscrew have a variance of +- half a car in parking.

I agree about the control upgrade but it could be done without, it would require long contacts that raise. Anything is possible if you want it to happen. However with that said I also believe it is highly unlikely to ever happen regardless. The ride currently operates efficient enough for the park it appears. In addition the cost of the upgrade on a coaster that is likely closer to the end of its life verses it's beginning doesn't make sense, at least in my eyes.

I think a coaster like firechaser express would be a nice addition using the former paddle wheel station area as a starting point and the coaster around the lagoons and on MF island(replacing dinosaurs alive) but a launched b&m flyer would be cool there as well.

The removal of corkscrew though on a small foot print could also use the space used by power tower and the old admin building that is currently used as a haunted house.

DJ and Pete are we confusing how much overall people like a ride vs. what they are willing to wait for it? GK is a fantastic ride and because the line is usually short or nonexistent I'll ride it 4-5 times in a row. No such thing happens on Maverick except in the morning when you can beat the crowd from the resort gate.

I don't see how you're head can explode on that point. Sure we can disagree, but it isn't some crazy idea. Of the around 15 different people I have personally brought to CP over the years and just conversations in line are indicative of anything it's that Maverick and MF are the two most "Popular" or "Loved". What stops people from riding them over and over? Yeah the line. Best bang for you're buck/time/fun at the park is GK along with WT and MaxAir that all generally have short lines (Close proximity being the key factor here). Along with Windseeker provided someone doesn't sneeze.

Let's say that Mav, MF, Valraven could have the wait times/capacity GK averages. Do you honestly think GK would be the most ridden or popular? The answer is subjective and I doubt it has a "Right" answer. From my own perspective I had 3 trips adding up to 10 days at the park this year. GK was my most ridden coaster by a mile, but Maverick would be my favorite. When given the choice between an hour wait or just 5 min I'll take the shorter wait. I don't think that's just an enthusiast perspective it's how most people think.

Well said, but some people cannot get over the turnstile counts as making something most popular.
I'm at the Atlanta airport right now, busiest airport in the world, is it the most popular... no. Same could be said for subway systems. Football teams: the most people watch the Patriots, are they the most popular? Likely not when judged by different measurements such as merchandise.
The fact the MF is not the most ridden ride in the park, and yet somehow is always a worldwide favorite makes no difference to some people that just want to be explosively disagreeable.

The most popular of something or best is rarely measured by the most consumed, who counts a KIA as their favorite car?
All rides were not built with the same budgets, design, or capacity concerns. And therefore if most people want to ride the most amount of rides they will, as stated above, ride and reride rides with shorter lines. Does that make them most popular, or just plainly most ridden.

Give what magic bands do for the mouse, does distributing the guests more evenly so they can get in more rides in a day make one ride less popular, absolutely not. If the same amount of people may get one ride in on every ride in one day, does that make them all equally popular?
(I can just see Wikipedia and Webster's server getting lit up looking for a definition that fits for popular to mean most consumed/ridden/used)

I think people are confusing popular and favorite. Cedar Point is my favorite park. I only get there once, maybe twice, a year. I go to Darien Lake ~10x per year. It isn't my favorite.

I'm located in Rochester myself. Luckily we live close enough to CP that it isn't a crazy long drive!

I feel a little embarrassed for not knowing this, but... what's an Arrow dance? I'm assuming some kind of loading/unloading protocol, but what did it entail exactly?

Stepping on pedals as the train enters the station to unlock the restraint. Each car has one, so there is a certain timing to being able to step on them as the train enters.

In 2017, this is probably considered an unsafe practice and is probably not done like it was 25+ years ago.

Çp4€và04 said:
I'm located in Rochester myself. Luckily we live close enough to CP that it isn't a crazy long drive!

I'm in Rochester, too... How is 5-6hrs not a crazy long drive?!?

Chuck Wagon said:

In 2017, this is probably considered an unsafe practice and is probably not done like it was 25+ years ago.

I mean I agree with it..I could see some idiot trying to grab the op and pulling them...people are stupid

RideMan included a bonus video of the "Arrow Dance" in his most recent article. See the bottom of the article here.

Çp4€và04 said:

DJ and Pete are we confusing how much overall people like a ride vs. what they are willing to wait for it?

No, we're not confusing anything. Capacity is just as relevant a characteristic as is airtime. Imagine two MFs right next to each other, identical aside from capacity. The MF with higher capacity will have a shorter line, thus attracting more riders. More riders choosing the MF with higher capacity makes that version more popular.

GK is a fantastic ride and because the line is usually short or nonexistent I'll ride it 4-5 times in a row. No such thing happens on Maverick except in the morning when you can beat the crowd from the resort gate.

Right. You'll ride GK 4 or 5 times as frequently as Maverick, making it more favored (AKA popular) by you. Sure, you might prefer the elements on Maverick over GK, but you're still riding GK more, making it more popular with you.

Let's say that Mav, MF, Valraven could have the wait times/capacity GK averages. Do you honestly think GK would be the most ridden or popular?

Nope. But you're making a nonsensical comparison, in that you're changing one of the main characteristics (capacity) of those rides. Let's flip your comparison around... Let's say that Mav, MF, Valravn all have no elements. The train literally leaves the station, travels on horizontal track and returns directly to the station. Do you honestly think those coasters would be anyone's favorite?

GK was my most ridden coaster by a mile, but Maverick would be my favorite.

Exactly - GK is more popular with you, but Maverick is your favorite.

XS NightClub said:

Football teams: the most people watch the Patriots, are they the most popular? Likely not when judged by different measurements such as merchandise.

If the Patriots have more fans than any other team, they are the most popular team.

The fact the MF is not the most ridden ride in the park, and yet somehow is always a worldwide favorite makes no difference to some people that just want to be explosively disagreeable.

The most popular of something or best is rarely measured by the most consumed, who counts a KIA as their favorite car?

That's the problem - you're conflating "popular" with "favorite". Popularity is literally the measure of prevalence of being preferred. If KIA sells more cars than anyone else, KIA is the most popular (most chosen, most prevalent) car. Sure, people may not favor a KIA over a Lamborghini, but it's still more popular than a Lamborghini.

All's I'll say is "Leave Corkscrew Alone!" Yes, this is personal, but, some of my best memories are of riding Corkscrew in the dark after the Circus had closed during it's first season. Always loved those Maintenance rides!!!

Shane Denmark said:

I'm in Rochester, too... How is 5-6hrs not a crazy long drive?!?

Ive developed these mental ways of blocking out how much I hate riding along I90 for 5 hours. Work for me is normally 8 hours along with sleep. Or when I normally leave at 6AM for my trips I figure I'll be there before lunch. Little things like that work for me and make the trip seem short. Along with that whole glass half full thing, it could be 10 hours or even more.

The biggest one of all SiriusXM!

DJ I can't say much against you're response. We just look at the definition abit differently and I'm not being sarcastic here you more than likely are right. I just think it's hard for people like me to disassociate popularity from favorite or preferred.

The whole KIA part I can identify with, I currently have a 2015 Optima. Love the thing and they are everywhere, but boy would it be nice to have a BMW :)

I forgot to add this one last rebuttal. I'll give you that capacity in reality is just as much a factor as the elements, speed ect. All I was trying to say is that if you eliminate that variable and make it equal across all the coasters then I would have to imagine GK is no longer the most popular.