Wicked Twister- next on the chopping block?

Perpetual Obsession said:

Is it not out of the question that CGA might just simply build a brand-new Intamin Impulse Coaster instead of getting an old one from another CF park? I ask this because there seems to be a park in China that's building one this year (twisted on both ends, no less).

It's unlikely, given the reported nature of the relationship between CF and Intamin's US office, specifically Sandor Kernacs.

^ I heard some rumor about him calling Americans fat or something. Seriously.

That being said, I could see Cedar Fair ordering another Intamin if they start to catch on again in the US. They are making footsteps in the US market with Wave Breaker, and if the Polercoaster in Orlando ever gets built, they have that too (it was changed to Intamin from S&S.)

Until Intamin can improve with reliability and get new management stateside, I don't see CF working with them again. It's possible other manufacturers make similar rides to WT.

^Which is why I'm hoping Wave Breaker is a VERY reliable ride. I mean, they've been doing LSM launches for a years now and this is a pretty small ride, so hopefully they won't screw it up.

Then again, we also thought they couldn't screw up a log flume, and look what happened.

Yeah, MFs reliability is awful, they should just get rid of it.

Great, so of the ~$130 million they've spent with Intamin, a mere 80% of that product has had major issues. Intamin should put that on a brochure!

WT required nightly repair work during it's debut season, and permanent additional supports following the season, so that the ride wouldn't tear itself apart.

TTD had a disastrous debut year (and several subsequent years with issues), not to mention the cable snaps and one of the decorative tires coming off. That last one alone could have killed someone.

Maverick missed its opening day because the heartline roll was poorly designed.

And do we really need to review the disaster that was StR?

Elsewhere, I305 required a huge amount of retracking after its debut.

On top of all that, rumor has it that trying to work with Intamin to fix these issues was, to put it mildly, unpleasant. That's why CF hasn't touched Intamin in a while, and why I'd be shocked to see a new Intamin go in anywhere in the CF chain (unless at a steep discount as some sort of olive branch for being such a terrible company for so long).

And yet if there was only some way ( google analytics 😏 ) to gauge the overall interest in specific rides at the park and the level of attraction they have for the park. I wonder what manufacturer is at the top of that list, taking in account for newness and advertising for specific rides as well (Valravyn).

Manufacturer of ride is irrelevant, what matters to the parks is that they got a good ROI and guests were satisfied. And I don't think John Q Public even knows or cares who manufactured the rides. Only enthusiasts really know who the manufacturers are and that only accounts for a tiny percentage of annual park attendance.

The public may not care who built the rides. But if I'm the park, and I bought the ride, it broke down alot, cost me more money to maintain, then when I asked for help you turned out to be an ass, do you think I'd want to buy from you again?

That's the logic behind it..

That's basically what I meant by ROI, if it costs alot to maintain and it's down a good part of the time, your ROI won't be good. And that would result in decreased guest satisfaction if they came for a particular attraction and it was down all day for mechanical reasons or spent a great deal of time in line only to have it go down while waiting. And the fact that very few parks buy from Intamin these days tells me that they are difficult to work with. I would imagine that is why the park just decided to cut their losses on STR and remove it, coupled with low ridership.

GigaG said:

^ I heard some rumor about him calling Americans fat or something. Seriously.

He's kinda right ya know?

I bet Premier Rides could build a good clone of Wicked Twister.

samosuband said:

"...the specific rides shown should be taken more as an indication of the kind of rides the park is considering rather than a definitive shopping list of new additions."

I think this quote answers that question.

Yes. This.

So much Intamin hatred... Yes, the product had issues. But in the end, CP ended up getting arguably their most famous coasters, MF and Dragster. And, of course, Maverick, an enthusiast favorite and a nice GP pleaser to boot. Sadly, their reliability record in the 2000s was not too great, and I totally understand why Cedar Fair turned to B&M, as unfortunate as the lack of Intamins is.

How have their recent installations been doing? Formula Rossa? Taron? Flying Aces? The Blitz coasters in Turkey? The new hyper in China (Coaster Through the Clouds?) Because I feel like the reliability record of their newer rides is probably better represented by these than some of the infamous maintenance nightmares. Yes, they're new, but it seems like the worst of Intamin's maintenance issues come at the start (Maverick's reprofiling, TTD's chaotic first few seasons, and Twister's welding issues) so if these rides got off to a reasonably smooth start, that might be a good sign.

YES on Kiddy Kingdom. They need to do something with it- honestly, other than the carousel, KK is just a handful of old fashioned, ugly rides- the only unique things about it (again, carousel aside) were removed already, first with Kid Arthur's Court and then Sir Rub-A-Dubs. The tots have far better rides to play on in both Camp and Planet Snoopy- best to scrap those old clunky circular car/boat/whatever rides and their ugly-butt canopies and do something better with the space.

Now, the carousel is another matter. I love it- I have a soft spot for carousels in the first place, and Kingdom Carousel is a beauty. Menagerie carousels are a rarity. The mounts could use some love (my poor beloved white rabbit has had the same chip in his ear for years now) and perhaps the original musical works could be restored (a recording of merry-go-round music is hardly the same as the merry-go-round actually PLAYING it as intended), but I don't want to see it go anywhere other than perhaps a different location in the park.

GigaG said:

So much Intamin hatred... Yes, the product had issues.

LOL. I love how flippant folks are when they're not the ones writing multi-million dollar checks. Shoot the Rapids did not "have issues". It was a complete and utter failure of a product.

But in the end, CP ended up getting arguably their most famous coasters, MF and Dragster.

Four of their five most popular coasters are not from Intamin.

^Probably because some Intamins tend to have middling to low capacity, and also the reliability issues that still keep them down a bit more than the B&Ms. B&Ms and some Arrows are absolute capacity monsters. (Valravn is an exception, its capacity is akin to the mid-higher end of Intamins. A smidge lower than, say, GK.)

Sollybeast said:

The tots have far better rides to play on in both Camp and Planet Snoopy- best to scrap those old clunky circular car/boat/whatever rides and their ugly-butt canopies and do something better with the space.

Before becoming a parent, I would have agreed. But for some damn reason, kids find a surprising amount of enjoyment in running from ride to ride, despite there often being only cosmetic differences between them. Plus, the capacity of any individual ride of this type is absolutely awful, so having several duplicates helps avoid long lines.

GigaG said:

^Probably because some Intamins tend to have middling to low capacity, and also the reliability issues. B&Ms and some Arrows are absolute capacity monsters.

So what? Having poor capacity is poor design!

You're basically saying "if we ignore all the reasons Intamin rides are inferior products, they actually make a better product!"

Maverick used to send out the second train when the train ahead was in the corkscrew. Now it waits till it hits the LSMs in the tunnel. So there's some slight room for improvement.

Also, the poor capacity on one of CP's Intamins (Twister) is a side effect of it being a shuttle coaster. Few shuttle coasters have switch tracks to run multiple trains (I know of 2, plus a similar system on a full-circuit coaster, all by Premier rides.)

I would say TTD would have better capacity if it wasn't down so much. But hydraulic launches push the envelope. There are definitely reliability issues with them, hence why LSMs are more popular now. They've matured quite a bit in the last decade.

Speaking of new things, one interesting fact is that Maverick was Intamin's first full-circuit coaster to use an LSM (as opposed to LIM) launch, and 2 of them to boot. Basically, it was a prototype of sorts, or at least the first of its kind, which may account for its reliability issues (which are noticeable, but not as bad as TTD.) Intamin isn't the only company to have screwed a new launch system up. Lightning Rod (not sure who made the LSMs) is a recent example of a prototype that has had problems.

Also, LSMs struggle to launch larger, higher-capacity trains, and they were probably even less able to do so in 2007. I would imagine that's why Maverick has the lowest capacity of CP's top-tier coasters; it needed the small trains for its launch tech. Most LSM coasters from other companies also use small trains.