What are they thinking ?!

You are certainly correct in your last paragraph.

I'm not sure they want more people spending less money. That leads to high attendance but crowds, lines, etc which will start to impact the experience. I DO believe Dick and the gang think about those things.

I don't think Dick spends more than a few minutes each year thinking about seasonal salaries. I think someone proposes A...he suggests B...they go with B.

One thing they may have to consider, and I'm totally serious, is how much a seasonal makes relative to how much a full time employee makes. They hire in their salaried, entry level folks at pretty low salaries. There is a good chance those salaried employees can make an argument that they are paid less (or certainly fairly equal to) what the seasonals make.

When I was managing the hotels early on it is farily safe to say the bellmen made more than I did...certainly if you looked at it on a per hour basis. Sure, I got some additional benefits they did not but at that point the $$ was more important than the health care and vacation. Of course, now that I'm old and decaying the health care benefits take on a greater significance.

Chief Wahoo said:
There is a good chance those salaried employees can make an argument that they are paid less (or certainly fairly equal to) what the seasonals make.

This is very true. When I was a seasonal I knew how much my area manager made, don't ask how but I knew exactly how much his paychecks were. I made a good $300 to $400 more then he did per paycheck. I obviously worked more hours than he, but he certainly pulled a lot of hours too. This is why I am not looking forward to the day I make salary, which may happen in about 9 months from now.

I don't know that attendance would go up, but I know if I go up to a food stand and realize that I can get fries and a pop for 5 bucks (decent for an amusment park) rather than 12 bucks, I'm going to do 2 things.

1 - I'll be buying fries and a pop.

2 - I'll be stopping back later for some more because I've got the money.

So, instead of me spending 0 dollars, you've gotten me to spend at least 10, and possibly more because I feel there is a value on each purchase. Like I said, more people spending maybe a little less per purchase, but probably spending more overall because it is a value.

99er - I'm salaried AND get OT. Don't have to do it much, but there are some programs we have that are on mandatory OT. I'm just glad I'm not on one of them.

^Interesting. I don't think I know anybody that is salaried and gets overtime. I guess I never even thought that could happen. In my line of work I am use to working 70 hours a week, I enjoy it. I love work. But I wouldn't enjoy working 70 but getting paid for 40. Unless of course my park is interested in giving me OT after 40, then I would be a happy camper:)

Yeah, I don't know any of my other friends who get paid for it either. So it is nice. Thankfully, I think I've only had to do it once. I still prefer to just work 40 hours and get home to my wife.

MeanStreak'07 said:
We're just trying to fight for what we deserve. If all of us that are upset about this "move on"; im pretty sure they wouldnt have enough staffing.

What you deserve? Where does this silly sense of entitlement come from? You aren't curing cancer, you're running a ride after a few hours of training. Honestly, if you aren't smart enough to move when someone repeatedly kicks you in the metaphoric nuts over and over, the only thing you deserve is the pain.

And you perfectly illustrate my point. They do have enough staffing because you keep coming back.

The right or wrong of it is completely irrelevant. I've criticized the company over and over for its general lack of value toward HR. But it's just not going to improve when you enable it.

I think they should at least pay the minimal wage. I mean many college kids enjoy working at the park on their break and need the money for school. Sometimes I wonder how these big companies decide how to pay the workers so little when they do so much!

Why can't anyone get it on here?

dsloban said:

Sometimes I wonder how these big companies decide how to pay the workers so little when they do so much!

How can these companies decide to pay their employees so little? Its because those employees keep COMING BACK no matter how little the pay is. Aside from the fact that its illegal, I bet if Cedar Point offered $6.50 an hour, the same employees on here talking about $7 being to little would STILL go back to the park to work.

99er, Jugga, and Chief:

I know the article that Megan linked to last page contained pretty much my entire argument in this thread, and that we've all heard it a hundred times already. But the discussion you three were just having brought a few specific sentences of it to my mind. You guys were talking about how it affects the company on a more externally visible basis, and I completely agree with everything that was said. I also think, though, that it can show the issues internally as well, if you have been on the inside (that is, been an employee). Here is what I had to say on that in my article, and I'm curious as to whether you agree with that last sentence.

The pay rate is the very visible tip of a large iceberg, and an iceberg that I hope for the sake of my friends returning there gets taken care of before too long. The employee situation is something to take note of if you are a unit holder, or anyone interested in the success of Cedar Fair. It indicates the internal state of the company, one that from recent issues doesn’t seem to be that good.

Now with that being said, I found the topic about the lower full time positions getting less per paycheck than some of the seasonals interesting, and unfortunately very believable. I've also found out the real meaning of the words "will review," and when applied to housing, it means "we don't care, its not getting fixed." Issues in the 1400 building (and others) were repeatedly brought up, and each time that's what we got. Obviously, those things didn't get fixed. I think that's actually a much more damaging message to send to your employees than the pay issue. You hear everyone and their brother griping about their pay, but you don't usually hear people complaining about potential health hazards in their place of living. Health hazards that aren't taken care of despite large volumes of reports.

The OSHA fines were chump change, and I'm sure being forced to fix any health hazards this offseason in housing were fairly insignificant as well. But what happens when there's a problem in the middle of the season? What happens if the Health Board goes for an inspection and finds condemnable issues in June/July? That's a much bigger problem. A problem that could be enough to maybe get some people to take notice. Maybe HE won't take notice, or even care, but I'm willing to bet others who can have an impact will notice.

You keep bringing up things that consumers don't care about so long as their experience isn't altered (horrible food service aside, it's debatable if it does), and employees keep tolerating. I know it sucks/is immoral/is short-sighted/is poorly managed, but you just aren't going to get any sympathy from me if you keep playing into it.

Jeff, quite frankly I really don't care what you think, and I'm not playing into anything. I know you'll come back with countless quotes on how I'm "playing into" it (whatever "it" is), and you're free to spin it and read it however you want. I was merely continuing a line of discussion that I felt was relevant to the discussion taking place between the three members I mentioned. If bringing up scenarios and how it could have an effect is "playing into it," then I could find and spin many quotes from others in that manner. I'm not going to take the time even if you want me to, because I know you'll just come up with another reason of why you're right. Now, if you'll just let me go back to my discussion.

99er, I have a feeling people on here can't get it A) because they haven't been in the situation before, B) don't understand anything that has been said in the last few pages, or are C) ignorant of all discussion and just want to chime in with random messages.

What Jeff's saying is that as long as people keep accepting minimum wage, nothing is going to change. The park is apparently happy with the level of service they get for 7 bucks, and those who come here and bitch about it are still going to take their job. That doesn't fix the problem, that feeds it.

Its the same thing with food or the hotels. Apparently the park is making enough off food so they don't raise the quality or lower the price (although see my analysis on the last page for more thoughts on that). The hotels have been discussed ad infinitum in the past. Are they extremely expensive and somewhat low quality? Yes, but the occupancy is somewhere around 99% ALL SEASON LONG. As a business, they aren't going to lower the price or increase the quality while they are selling out.

Its the same with jobs. They feel that employees are doing a good enough job at 7 bucks, and they are able to get enough to staff the park. So why increase it? (yes chief, I realize there are other reasons why they should and I do agree with you on them). The demand is there, so until the management is hit over the head with hammer to realize the employee problems, nothing is going to change.

I realize what Jeff is saying, but I'm slightly confused as to why he's directing it at me. I thought I had made it pretty clear earlier that I had no plans to return to CP/CF as either a guest or employee, and therefor not a part of feeding the problem. Oh well...

As for your last point about a hammer hitting them over the head, I agree that is what it will take, but I think there are a few more options for a hammer than just not getting enough staffing (because in this economy, people will obviously take whatever they can get). Like I said above, one of those hammers could be the issue they run into with housing should the Health Board show up for an inspection (through either a tip or regular course of inspection) midseason and find condemnable situations. It may not show them the merits of paying more, but it would certainly show them the problem of hazardous housing. At that point finding a place for a few hundred employees to live while you fix a building could be quite costly.

I'm not A, B or C and still agree with Jeff. What now?

*facepalm* Does no one actually read anything I post? Ben, I was talking to 99er in response to his post to dsloban. That part of my post had absolutely NOTHING to do with Jeff.

Edit: Are my redirects really that hard to follow? Really?

I think I am done with commenting on the pay for jobs. Its pretty plain and simple. Pay is not going up until a lot less people stop applying for jobs. And we know that aint happening anytime soon. Cedar Points philosophy is “If it aint broke, don’t fix it”. And to those at the top, staffing (regarding pay) aint broke!

To what BlueStreak was saying:
As for the housing issue. Of course I agree that the living conditions could be better but I have to ask where this rumor of the health department coming in and issuing citations came from? Its been mentioned in this thread but I want to see/hear proof. I would think something like that would have been in the news, at least local. I have not heard a thing.

As for the actual condition of the dorms, they have been that way for years. They were sub-par when I lived in them. I have to think that its still the same as it was when I lived there. By that I mean the dorms are not that bad at the beginning of the season. Once more people show up, the more they tear apart the place during the course of the summer. Then people start the complaints and the fixing takes place in the off-season. I know that management DOES forward on recommendations about what to fix, I have seen the pictures and paperwork that says this. But its up to the same person who decides pay to say if it gets fixed. And we all know that persons idea of where to spend money, so no shock there that it doesn’t always get fixed. I know for a fact this off season a lot of work is being done to the Commons Apartments. Its visible from the road.

The Health Department is probably well aware of the conditions of living at Cedar Point. Its nothing new around the world of Cedar Point. But I don’t foresee the park making huge improvements to any of the housing anytime soon. They will do just enough to get by because that’s all they really have to do. People will still come and work they as proved time and time again.

Yeah John, my Mom is a Governess and is salaried at $850 a week for 50 hours worked but receives time and a half for any hours over 50. She also receives $100 for each night she spends at their house with the children.

My parents also receive a 3 bedroom, 1 bath new home to live in for free with all utilities paid. As well as benefits.

Yes, it seems some of us are in the wrong profession. If you have a teaching degree and are willing to relocate, this is the industry to get into.

If anyone's interested....

English Nanny and Governess School

It's in Chagrin Falls.

Does she take them for rollicking musical numbers through the hills?

Or sing to them during Thunderstorms?

Or yodel?

;)

Hahahaha.....

Not many hills in Oklahoma. ;)

BlueStreak64 said:
I realize what Jeff is saying, but I'm slightly confused as to why he's directing it at me.

I'm not directing anything at anyone, though if you're not working there anymore, it seems to me then that it's none of your concern. I'm just tired of all the complaining on the part of everyone else (which by the way has been going on here at this site since before most current employees hit puberty) who isn't willing to pack up and do something better with their summers. The truth is that, yes, employees are entitled to certain things, but if they can't get it, they shouldn't be perpetuating the cycle of abuse by participating in the system. It makes no sense. See previous comment about metaphoric nuts.