Thoughts on CP while fresh from Disney

You've also got to look at deomgraphics if you're going to compare the two. Disney exists in an area that will predominately draw either retirees who live close enough to use their in-state discount and drive home at the end of the day (i.e. my parents) or young to middle-aged parents affluent enough to afford the trip down with the kids and time off work (i.e. my parents 20 years ago). There're plenty of exceptions (yeah, got it) but those two and school trips are who I see when I go to Disney. As a guy in his mid-twenties, a weekend trip to Disney while visiting parents in Tampa isn't a big deal. You pay a reasonable rate for a 3 day park-hopper, and that pass is on a plastic card, like an ATM card, that you can use anytime. I went for 2 days almost 2 years ago and still have 1 day waiting to be used, which won't expire until I use it or they revamp their policy. The Disney All Star resorts are set up like a Holiday Inn just outside the park. It counts as a Disney resort, so you get all the benefits, but if you book early enough the cost isn't any more than any hotel in the area would be, and is actually less than quite a few of them. Drinks and food in-park can be expensive, but you have options close by, and if you chose not to use them, the level of service in the park is exceptional. Cedar Point is in a blue-collar area, snug between Pittsburgh and Detroit. I grew up in Pittsburgh. I'm used to a Kennywood trip 3 times a year, Cedar Point once a year, and that's your summer. I won't say it's not fair to compare the two, it certainly is, but doing cost-analysis between a trip to each when you live within driving distance of one or the other just isn't fair. A guy from Miami can say it'll cost him 5K to take his family to CP between airfare, lodging at Breakers, tickets, refreshments etc., while it'll cost him the price of gas and a Motel 6 to take his family to Disney. The service at CP has certainly dipped in the last 10 years or so, I won't argue that, but I usually go off-peak and haven't been able to make it in the last 3 years, so I'm not the subject matter expert for that. I think it's a mistake to outsource the food from both a service and a profit POV. When you have a TGIF-quality place that has the park's name on it and park employees working in it, it reflects well on the park. If you have TGIF doing good business and offering quality service at Breakers, it reflects well on TGIF and takes the shine off the apple when you go to get your cheese on a stick the next day and wait 20 minutes when your steak took 10 the night before.

I'm not sure I follow what you're getting at though. Are you suggesting I should have lower expectations because of location or the target audience?

When you pay the high price to get into either of those parks, I think you deserve a certain level of service. Disney trains their cast members to exceed guest expectations, and in many, many cases, they empower their employees to do just that. Do they really exceed guest expecations? I'm sure it is hit and miss. But, if your target is to exceed and you fall short and simply "meet" expectations...well, that ain't too bad.

Cedar Point will never deliver a Disney product (and I would argue that Disney isn't even delivering the Disney product of 20 years ago). But, I'm not demanding the Disney product from Cedar Point. They could make a better effort and that has to start from the top.

Oh and a quickie on parking: I drove by the Office Depot Center (home of the Florida Panthers hockey team) and they had a concert going on. $20 to park your car there. Of course, you could park across the street at one of the world's largest outlet malls, walk across, and pay nothing.

But, that $20 parking made even Cedar Point seem like a big deal. Nobody give Mr. Kinzel any ideas.

Again I wonder why people persist to tell me that it's unfair to compare CP to Disney, or that it's not a good comparison, or whatever else someone comes up with.

The truth of the matter is that CP at one time was legitimately as good as Disney in many regards. It was fair to compare the parks then and it still is now. There isn't any good reason to lower your expectations for value and fun for your entertainment dollar in any of the excuses thrown out in this thread.

Cheif, I would imagine that parking for 20 bucks at a sporting event is more the norm than the exception. The difference is that there are real option for a consumer to avoid that price. In downtown Cleveland there is an open market in parking and one who wants to can park for free.

Gener - at the same time, you are paying 20 bucks to park your car for what, 3, maybe 4 hours for a sporting event. At Cedar Point, you are paying 10 bucks to park your car for 8 hours at the short end, and 12+ at the long end. Not to mention, you can exit to go to your car at any time during the day.

When you compare it to the parking at other venues, its really not bad. Yes there is (usually) free parking around sporting venues, but not always. Neither the Palace nor Silverdome have convenient free parking. There are places that run a shuttle, but it ain't free. And the only reason the downtown arenas and stadiums don't have locked in parking is because it wasn't feasible to take up that much land.

The 10 dollar parking fee at Cedar Point is at the bottom of my list of concerns. They have several other areas that need serious fixing before I'll worry about it.

Those comparisons are kinda pointless, if you ask me. No one receives any value from parking whether it's for a dollar or a hundred. You do it because you have no choice.

That's not entirely true. When I go to sporting events, whether its in Detroit or Grand Rapids, there's never any free parking near the arena. We've usually got a 5-10 minute walk from the free parking. Whereas if I were to pay anywhere from 6 (GR) to 20 (Det.) dollars, I'd get the "value" of being next to the arena.

Its all in where you perceive that value to be. Some people prefer the convenience of proximity and are willing to pay to be right near their vehicle. Normally, I won't pay unless I'm getting downtown a little later in the evening and don't want to drive around trying to find a "free" spot.

But I think there is a value there, the question is "Is the cost lower than the perceived value?", and that's different for everyone.

We aren't talking about arenas, are we? You never go to a park and think, "Wow, I'm so glad I paid for my car to park here. It sure will enjoy sitting here. I bet it likes that little German number in the next space.

No one wants to pay for parking at an amusement park.

I don't want to pay for parking anywhere.

But I don't think 10 dollars is unreasonable either. And I generally expect it when I'm going to a park. I would be pleasantly surprised to go to a park and not have to pay, but I'm not going to let the fact that I have to pay leave a bad taste.

There's plenty of other stuff at Cedar Point that leaves a bad taste after emptying my wallet.

No one wants to pay for parking at an amusement park.

Especially in a lot that is poorly laid out making it take forever to get out of on a busy day, and one that floods everytime it rains...

Sporting events and concerts are different because the attraction is always different. If you're going to see a concert, chances are it's a band you haven't seen in a while or at all, so the desire to see something unique surpasses the desire to not pay a high parking rate.

The same is true at sporting events. The teams might be the same, but the game you're paying to see will always be different and unpredictable. Again, the desire to see something unique surpasses the desire to not pay a high parking rate.

CP is more or less a predictable experience. Generally only one ride out of seventy is added every other year, so the people who come have already experienced just about everything there. This makes it harder to get guests to come back, and so anything that makes it seem like a hassle or a ripoff is sure to make attendance dip. Truthfully, I find it almost outrageous that they haven't increased the admission price by $5 and eliminated the parking fee. Same money, entirely different perception.

One perspective I have about parking is that I think forcing folks to stop and pay a toll actually helps in the process of parking cars. If everyone were streaming in I suspect it would be quite a bit more chaotic. That isn't, of course, the reason they charge but it is an ancillary benefit.

As I said, I don't mind paying for parking at Disney when I know I won't be walking across Egypt to get to the main gate. And, I perceive that my car will be safe (lots of staff/security in the lot) as well as "clean" because the lots are well maintained.

When I park in the dirt at the Dolphins stadium and have to walk halfway across Florida to get to my seat I enter the stadium pretty tired and ticked. Of course, I also enter with a few beers in me so I guess I don't mind so much in the moment.

There are other ways to cover the cost of having a parking lot. It's an integral part of operations and justifiably can be included in the ticket price from my point of view.

My comment on the parking in a major downtown city is that there are choices for the consumer. And I never claimed that there would be free parking convenient to the venue. (the one exception I have found is/was in Cincinnati, Ohio) It's a cost/benefit trade off.

The point is that there are no reasonable choices for someone who doesn't want to pay ten dollars for parking at CP. And i found it ludicrous to argue that since you're getting a better time/cost ratio at an amusement park that makes it a good deal. There are legitimate maket driven reasons why pricy parking is found in the city, Cedar Point doesn't exihibit any of those. They are a monopoly when it comes to parking availablility for their park, and the price they demand reflects that. Many feel like they're being taken advantage of when they pull into that toll both.

Furthermore, I imagine that the parking attendants could handle parking a steady stream of cars should they not have to stop and pay a toll. It might require better organization or a different plan, but come on, it's not rocket science.