Thoughts on CP while fresh from Disney

CPboy77 said:
Hey, I'm a teen too...

Who has no kids, no mortgage, no car payment, maybe not even a job. Honestly, if I was running CP, you're the last person I'd want in the park unless you were with both parents and siblings. You don't generate revenue by yourself. I'm not trying to say you're worthless personally, but you're about the last demographic I'd be worried about attracting.

Read the thread again. This is not about what you find thrilling or how boring Disney is. This is about providing exceptional service and value. It's not a knock on you, but I don't think you can appreciate what those things entail until you're older.

There is no other way to tackle this than with a simple statement: Your (CPboy77) thinking on this subject is completely flawed. Cedar Point has some pretty obvious things that need fixed, even if they aren't "broken." Disney applies here because where they currently are in operations, service, etc. is once where Cedar Point was with these things, at the top of the industry. The "teen excuse" does not work, I don't care, it does not work.

Jeff: Not only was I pretty ticked off when I became aware of some of the levels of micromanagement, but I was also surprised that that would even happen. That resulted in a big drop in my respect and perception of how upper management does things.

Chief: Believe me, I was very close to calling it quits in the first two weeks, and a good part of it was housing. Like I said in my description of some of my thoughts when I walked into Commons, that is not the kind of impression you want to give any employee, and I can tell you agree with me. Unfortunately, a lot of it is the result of not being able to draw the kinds of quality employees that the park used to. This of course means that you have a large portion of employees who don't care about property, and is only compounded by upper management's disregard for the seasonal employees.

Jeff Said:
Well here's the thing about the park and reading this stuff. Frankly, they do read it. After almost 10 years, I've obviously built relationships with a lot of people there, been to weddings, seen friends score jobs, etc. That's what makes it hard for me to criticize the park, because ultimately people I consider friends are responsible for what I'm criticizing. I mean, I have the greatest respect for John Hildebrandt, the GM, because even as he has ascended the ranks to his position, he's not above chatting with me or even spending an hour talking about whatever. He certainly doesn't have to. He could write me off as some punk kid (er, 30-something kid) with a Web site, but he's willing to listen.

Jeff, has anyone from the park contacted you on your intial post?
It would be interesting to hear what this person(s) had to say...
I do not want to get you into any trouble, been there and done that myself in working for Cp the past two years, but it would be nice to know that someone has seen it.

It wouldn't surprise me if someone has talked to Jeff about his initial post (though, being in Orlando, he may be hard to reach) but...if they have...I wouldn't tell anyone here. While I believe MANY of the full time employees would agree to a bulk of what Jeff or I or anyone else has to say in terms of criticisms...I wouldn't risk my job to let people know I felt that way.

Being overly critical of executives ain't great for your career goals, if you catch my drift. And, I'm sure examples of that wouldn't be too hard to find.

That said, I would HOPE that CP officials would value the thoughts of Jeff, who has shown a true appreciation for the park and doesn't just criticize for the sake of criticizing. He has certainly done more good for the company than bad with his websites. At no expense (or limited expense) by Cedar Fair.

And, I will say this...I worked for Disney too (not as long or at the level I worked at the Point) and, while I love the company I can certainly be critical of them too. In fact, much of my criticism of Eisner in his final years sounds very similar to my criticisms of Kinzel now. I think it would be an interesting case study to look at those two individuals side by side. While they dealt with significantly different companies, certainly from an economic/diversity point of view, I think their mentalities were a lot alike...sometimes to the benefit of their organizations and sometimes at a liability.

Let me put it another way:

If I'm Dick Kinzel I think I would want to know what engaged someone like Jeff or me 10, 15, 20 years ago that got us so enthusiastic about the park.

And, what has changed that might make us less enthusiastic, to the point that perhaps we won't pass on that enthusiasm to our children?

It is similar to what Major League Baseball has to do. They have to reinvent themselves for the next generation and sometimes talking to the current generation is a great way to do that. The current generation might say, "hey...you have depleted the talent with overexpansion." Baseball has slowed down it's spree of new teams. "I don't get to see the teams roll through town like I use to." (Which begat Interleague Play...and that has brought some "freshness" to baseball.) "The All Star game sucks." (Begat the teams "playing" for home field advantage in the World Series.)

Again, all of this MUST start with the premise that "we have some struggles and can do better". I'm not sure Mr. Kinzel would accept that premise and...herein lies the problem. If he doesn't accept it...and the Board of Directors is still, in effect, wrapped around his finger...game over.

Disney makes dreams come true.

Busch takes you on an adventure.

Cedar Fair gives you two parks for the price of one with specially marked Pepsi cans after May 26 (certain restrictions apply).

BBC said:
Disney makes dreams come true.

Busch takes you on an adventure.

Cedar Fair gives you two parks for the price of one with specially marked Pepsi cans after May 26 (certain restrictions apply).

What about Six Flags?

CPboy77 said:
Disney usually hires older people (boring people for that matter) and CP hires fun teens that makes the experience way more fun.

I believe Disney hires mostly college students. They were all the way up here during a career fair I went to last week, so I assume everyone who works there is't boring.

The employee housing at CP is atrocious and improving it will certainly make people enjoy working there. I almost drove right back home after I got there. It felt like I was in a prison. It sucks to get back from work and be afraid of what is growing on the lid of the toilet in your apartment. I didn't go to the bathroom without putting down a few layers of toilet paper the whole summer.

This year they said they would have wifi in select dorms. That'll be worthless if its anything like the wifi they had in the rec center. All they needed to do was buy 1 real router instead of trying to use a 40 dollar linksys and their problems would have been solved. Instead it was constantly not working or you couldn't get a connection because too many people were already connected. Most of the time pressing the reset button would have solved their problems. Too bad they didn't know that or believe anyone that told them.

Its too little effort too late.

One of the things I was planning on doing out if high school was taking on a summer at CP. Having now worked in foods for 2 1/2 years I think I could bring some of my own talent to CP. Why aren't I? Because 3 times a year I drive by where I would spend my summer sleeping on my way to Breakers and thinking "No way in hell".
In fact I am one of those teens who pays for all 3 of his trips to CP and forked out well over a thousand bucks last year of my own earned money. But every year I feel that I am not having as much "Fun" as I used to and it seems that the people I bring feel the same way. This thread should send a clear message to "Dad", get your act together and fast before things get much worse.
On a final note CP will lose about 400 dollars this year because I simply can't justify 3 trips, I could in the past but way to many negative things occurred last year that left a bad taste in my mouth. This should worry CP seeing on how I know I am not the only one cutting down or simply not coming at all.
As a disclaimer, this is not about "Me" and I don't expect things to change simply because I want them to, but hell look at this thread.

Man is this thread right on time! In the past I've posted the semi-serious "Save us Mr. Lassiter" threads in the employee lounge and have been lambasted for doing so. But the fact is that Big Dick has no vision whatsoever beyond $$$ and needs to be put out to pasture with Eisner.

I buy a CP pass each year, solely for soak city. I go to Anaheim yearly and to visit Disneyland resort and there is really no comparison. Cedar Point is management centered, Disney is guest-centered. I mean we could start a thread consisting solely of inane policies that ruin guests experience at CP. How many times have you gone to CP and been told "don't....." Their corporate attitude reminds me of the David Spade airline commercial where he snarkily tells all of the passengers "no". Disney is spending millions completely redoing "Small World" because the larger passengers of the last 30 years caused the boats to get stuck in the flume, but CP can't put the original seatbelts back on Millenium Force?
Also, Disney "cast members" value "show" as one of their four main tenets. Their jobs include performing, even if they are just a simple ride op. A CP employee who tried to give a funny, creative spiel ala someone at Disney would probably be fired on the spot.
I can't understand how Disney can be realistically accused of crass consumerism? Did John Lassiter stick a three point basketball shooting game with loud, repetitive ESPN music in the heart of Frontierland?

In recent years, one part of CP's employee training program has been called "Empowering Through Policies". Who or what is empowered is unclear but I'm sure it ain't the paying customer! I truly believe that unless a major change in management is made, the Paramount purchase will mark the beginning of the end for Cedar Fair. I grew up in the shadows of the Gemini and CP used to be one of my favorite places on earth, but all affinity I once had for the park is long gone. I have not left CP with a smile on my face for many years and I hate what the park has become. Please Jump, Mr. Kinzel.

Capt. Ed's Disciple

Not to mention that its hard to sell you value prop when about 25-30% of the population won't fit on the attractions. I'm not talking about huge, Hurley-esque people, but the average guy with a little gut or lady with childbearing hips. For myself, I've ridden Millineum that the same weight I am at now, same clothing size, except now I don't fit- but I still have to pay full price admission to get in the door and take my kids on the flats. Obviously the weight problem is mine. The fact that so many guests are excluded through thier policies is thiers. Come to the point, get embarassed in front of your friends as you get turned away from Wicked Twister. Thats a hell of a value. The least they could do is discount a ticket for "guests of exceptional size" they way they do for senior citizens.

cptedsdisciple2 said:

In recent years, one part of CP's employee training program has been called "Empowering Through Policies". Who or what is empowered is unclear but I'm sure it ain't the paying customer!

To be completely fair, "Empowered By Policies" is only the online training you participate in prior to arrival. Upon arrival, all first year employees and all employees who did not work the season prior must attend a 4+ hour training session to be eligible for their bonus, entitled "Building Foundations and Delivering Outstanding Guest Car," otherwise known as one's Cornerstone Training. While they cover many areas of the job, the primary focus is on Guest Care and Service.

Edit: Fixed Typos.

Four hours is the requirement? Well, I'm stunned that the customer service isn't rated better. But seriously, at Disney I had a total of 5 DAYS of training before I was ever in front of a guest on my own. 2 days was strictly "pixie dust" corporate training but at that time we were taken into the parks and saw first hand examples of what was expected. We "audited" other cast members to see what they were doing right and what they were doing wrong.

After the 2 days of Disney University training I had at least 3 more at the attraction before I was on my own. Granted, I had a speiling attraction that had a significant script to memorize but I can assure you that the "Leads" were confident I had it down before I was in front of the guests.

Now, obviously, Cedar Point cannot afford to keep their employees "off stage" for as long as Disney does. But, there must be a happy medium between 2 days and four hours.

I did not feel a great deal of "empowerment" while I worked at Cedar Point. The best example I can give of that is when guests had legitimate complaints that deserved some type of restitution. Even as a full time, low and mid level manager I was often put in a position of being the "negotiator" trying to deny guests any restitution while going back and forth with my superiors. I don't think that was a product of my department. I whole heartedly believe that was a product of the micro management of executive management.

Exactly...Why is it that at least 70% of all CP training involves the phrase "notify your supervisor"? I mean seriously, if some crazed terrorist were attempting to hurl a bomb at camp snoopy, 95% of the park employees would need to clear it with someone higher up before tackling him.

Here's a novel concept: let your employees think for themselves, make intelligent guest service decisions without having to call someone else and customer service will improve.

Jeff & Chief, you two are the only reason I visit this site...good stuff.

While the Cornerstone Training is required, most employees don't receive it until after they've been working for a few weeks or even months. I did win a pretty sweet power tower pin for answering a question right...

Thats crazy.

So what kind of training does a new employee get, for sure, before they start work?

I received my new employee training in 2004 (returning employees didn't have to redo their cornerstone training, so I didn't go through it the following two seasons).

Before arriving at the park I read through the online training and passed a test that basically covered such material as the names of the higher-up at Cedar Point and policies regarding safety and harassment. The format of the online portion has been updated since which is good because the version I used was very cumbersome.

The initial training before heading to my department (Challenge Park-Soak City) included a park-wide tour and a workshop that took place in one of the Breakers conference rooms. Lasting several hours, the park tour's purpose was for employees to know where everything was in the park and to be able to give accurate directions to any park location. The workshop was a presentation on guest service and how to tactfully relate to guests and deal with common situations that arise in an amusement park setting.

After the park tour and the workshop, I was sent to Soak City. Soak City provided its own training since lifeguarding requires a national certification from Ellis & Associates. My first day or two I was "tops only" meaning I could not work as a guard but only perform crowd control duties at the top of the slides. A team leader showed me how to do opening and closing duties through on the job training. It wasn't very busy at this point of the season and I remember only interacting with a handful of guests at the top of the slides.

Guard training was next and lasted several whole work days. Skills such as rescues and CPR were taught, and a test was given. Unlike the general park training, I was required to take the lifeguard training each season because the Ellis & Associates certificate is good for only a year. It was a good idea because a refresher in safety skills is always important. Once guard training was over I was assigned a crew (East my first season), and regularly scheduled work began. As for the general park training, I took it only in 2004 so it may not be the same as more recent seasons.

*Edited for paragraph spacing

I would not dispute that training for guards is good. Ellis certainly is the standard-bearer for lifeguard training.