Thoughts on CP while fresh from Disney

Okay just because you do not actually live close to Disney and you calculate that it will cost you $2500 isn't the same as saying CP is cheaper.
Just because we can pickup a $150 season pass and drive there doesn't mean it's cheaper.

You can do the same thing with Disney. My friend lived 10 minutes from Lake Buena Vista and he said that they offer exclusive deals to Florida residents to get them to even go to Disney parks.

A 6 night / 7 day CP trip costs about the same as a 6 night 7 day Orlando trip I have figured if you do not consider the cost of flying.

Kevinj said:
I have always assumed that one of themain reasons Disney has the better price points, quality of food, etc.,is simply due to the nature of the beast. That is, Disney is an entitythat owns networks, produces movies, toys, etc...while Cedar Fairsimply has its parks. Doesn't the enormous profit turned in by Disneyas a whole contribute to their ability to offset a lot of pricing whileat the same time offering high quality?

Well first, as a customer, what difference should it make to me? And second, no, I don't think it matters. The stuff I'm talking about isn't the nature of the attractions themselves (I don't expect a Tower of Terror to open any time soon at CP), but rather the experience around the operational aspects of the place. The front desk service at Pop Century or loading of Space Mountain or pricing and service at a food stand in Animal Kingdom have nothing to do with the corporate structure of the parent company.

Captain Hawkeye said:
Two years ago CF CUT prices. Attendance was down, revenue was flat.CF has empirical evidence that more "reasonable" prices aren't a biggerdraw. Makes no sense, but it happened--chainwide.

MDOmnis said:
No one is complaining about ticket and season pass prices though.They're complaining about the lack of value INSIDE the park - and thisis due to a combination of high prices and crappyquality/selection.

Ding ding! That's exactly my point. The admission itself isn't a problem in terms of value, at least not to me, but when you combine that with what happens inside the gates, then you've got a bigger picture to consider. The sting of admission, if you're cost conscious, is at least brief. When you drop three bucks for every soda in the course of the day, that sucks. Then add in the lockers. Then subtract positive and efficient service that you're paying too much for. That's where the value goes away. I honestly believe people will pay whatever it takes if they see value. I spent $46 at Epcot yesterday for lunch with tip, and the service was amazing, the wine was top notch, and holy crap, try the gelato.

And I don't know where you guys found me complaining about $1.25 for bottled water... I said that was significantly cheaper than the $3 at CP.

I do realize that CP's biggest fans can start to look a little like those Disney freaks who complain about the realism of the makeup on the actor playing Captain Jack in front of Pirates, but I don't think that's what you see here. I think as long-time customers and fans, we're coming to grips with the fact that things just aren't what they used to be. In my case, I'm spending more money in Orlando, which isn't exactly an hour drive. That's a bummer.

The bottom line is that they've fallen off their A-game.

It would be better to outsource the food to small franchisees and independents. If I purchase a Taco Bell to put in Frontier Town and it's my # 1 source of income, I'm going to see that everything is done well. I might charge 1.79 for a burrito instead of 99 cents but my customers won't really spazz about that. If I ran a family-operated french fry business (sound familiar?) it will have exceptional food and service.

Want to increase ridership numbers? Holy cow, just try to match the throughput rate from 12 years ago. I can't recall ever seeing Blue Streak trains sitting on the brake run for a whole minute waiting for the other train to depart back in the days of manual brakes. Heck, I would ride MF until my cheeks developed windburn if they could get train A on the course, B loading, and C unloading without backing up all the time. Taking two and a half minutes per cycle makes for ridiculous waits.

Kevinj said:
I have always assumed that one of themain reasons Disney has the better price points, quality of food, etc.,is simply due to the nature of the beast. That is, Disney is an entitythat owns networks, produces movies, toys, etc...while Cedar Fairsimply has its parks. Doesn't the enormous profit turned in by Disneyas a whole contribute to their ability to offset a lot of pricing whileat the same time offering high quality?

I don't know this for certain, but I'm pretty sure Disney would have separate financial divisions for each of its operations. For example, revenues from the latest Hannah Montana concert, would not filter over to the park budget. Its a good possibility that each Disney division is a stand alone entity, and if they aren't, then they probably should be. I don't think any company would stand for one division or entity to not be able to stand on its own. So, no matter how big the parent company is, it shouldn't have an effect on how a Disney park is operated.

Tip said:

Want to increase ridership numbers? Holy cow, just try to match the throughput rate from 12 years ago. I can't recall ever seeing Blue Streak trains sitting on the brake run for a whole minute waiting for the other train to depart back in the days of manual brakes. Heck, I would ride MF until my cheeks developed windburn if they could get train A on the course, B loading, and C unloading without backing up all the time. Taking two and a half minutes per cycle makes for ridiculous waits.

This goes without saying. The problem is correcting the issues that are preventing the ride from hitting it's capacity and being as efficient as it can be.

And I can tell you that last year, our crew was really trying. Heck, there were plenty of times during the day when we would hit interval, or have the train out on the brakes no more than 20-30 seconds. The seat belts are actually a big problem in hitting interval, since no one seems to know how to buckle an airline belt from the 70s.

And once again, this is where the bins come into play. it takes time for the guests to step through, fight the unloading crowd, put their stuff in the bins, and then return to their seats. Cut out the bins, and we would have hit interval a lot more frequently. I honestly don't know what's so hard about buckling a seat belt, and pulling down on your lap bar.

Maybe while the people are in the queue you could give them a "safety lecture" much like the airlines do? ;) You could also show them where the emergency exits are in case of a water landing or loss of cabin pressure.

I actually thought many times about how few safety signs are in the queues. I don't think there was a time I waited in Maverick's or TTD's queue without someone around me getting a little freaked about the "trains may not clear the lift hill" sign. While funny, it shows people do read signs in the queues, because they have nothing better to do honestly.

Now, put a safety sign with a pretty picture of the loose article policy and what to do with it when entering the train and I bet it would get some attention.

It's a stretch, but it's an idea.

Craig, it wouldn't work. There are "No Smoking" signs in line already, and we all know how many people actually see those.

^grr...Every time people see those signs and say "Fu** it, I'm still going to smoke". You just deal with it till' you see a ride op...

i think everyone that is agreeing is looking at this the wrong way. cedar point by no means should be compared to Disney. disney is able to operate year round while cedar point relies on the months of june july and august. the warm weather is what attracts people to disney. do any of you honestly think people would be flocking to disney like they are now if disney was on lake erie? do you also think the park would look so clean and well kept if it wasnt at least 70 degrees all year?

But if the only way CP can remain profitable is to keep jacking per cap up to unsustainable heights, while not providing any improvement in perceived value, then the park will be in deep trouble in upcoming years. That kind of business model will only go so far before it collapses under its own weight.

Jeff is exactly right.

I don't think anybody is looking for CP to become Disney. Disney has something that I don't think anybody will ever be able to duplicate.

We're looking at Disney's standards and how CP's standards don't match up. It's being realistic about the situation. I think CP can learn a lot by looking at the industry's super giants in Florida.

Many seem to think that CP is small. You're right when you compare it to Disney, Universal, Busch and Sea World resorts in Florida, California, and other states, but CP stands right behind them in size.

Disney's operating calendar has nothing to do with it. Are dollars worth something different in Orlando? I don't think so.

cpfanatic2006 said,

do you also think the park would look so clean and well kept if it wasnt at least 70 degrees all year?

So it has to be 70 degrees to empty trash cans, or sweep up trash on the ground?

Does anyone think that boosting employee pay would bring more revenue and value to the park? Let me explain.

First of all, as it has been well documented, there are several aspects of the park that need improvement.

It has also been documented that there are various parts of the season where CP is short staffed. If CP boosts employee pay, it would be an incentive for more people to apply.

More employees in the park gives the underpaid/overworked some time off to recuperate. (Which means they will be less grouchy and irritable)

Happy and rested employees make the experience for the guests more enjoyable. Food lines move quicker (cause hosts aren't dog-tired). Ride hosts communicate more with guests . Restroom hosts plunge toilets faster.

I kind of lost my train of thought, but perhaps others could add their insight. (sorry, I just got done with a 16 hour shift)

I'm not sure about increases in pay. Once again you can look at Disney and it's college program. They make up a big portion of Disney's "cast members" and are actually paid less than CP's employees.

I think the bigger part is getting everyone excited about work. Giving your employees a reason to value their job is a big step.

I think that people do not feel they get the spectacle that Disney offers.

If there was a parade of some sort for the kids and ultra cool state of the art playgrounds with a heavy theme. Then upgrade the hotels to what a resort should be like. A nice restaurant on point.

Frontier Town can be a cool theme, but when I walk by the rotting roofs of the houses I wish it wasn't real. I think you could incorporate more kids playing areas and sought after "spectacles" that give the whole family something to do.
Bright colors, LED's / laser lights, water, and bright glossy paint can be a lot to look at when you have some good artists behind it.

Disney has imagineers Does CP even have anything close?

Here is something that I think would work. CF gets bought by Lego, and they re-theme CP with Lego's.

Sandusky isn't as big as Orlando so your talent pool is smaller as well. I think the employees would be a little more enthused if they worked less hours.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't think we're looking at the overall picture where CP should be more like Disney. I think it's more about the finer details where CP has been slowly heading or already in the gutter. Many of which Disney has made great leaps in.

I never want CP to turn into a theme park. The park the way it is has a lot of character and charm that reaches way back to past generations.

This is completiy .

1. I thought this was POINTbuzz.com NOT "which isbetter.com".

2. You can't compare cedar point to disney and disney to cedar point. They are two very different kinds of experiences.

3.Why are you guys dissing cedar point? And don't say your not, because you are.

4.Whats up with this, jeff ? In your first paragraph you're making Disney sound like some kind of scandle, you made it sound like a crime to do anything involved with disney

5.Whoever said that "Cedar Points weight will become its own down fall or in your words "collapses under its own weight", NO IT WONT!! Did you forget Cedar Point has seen 2 world wars, a depresion and a tornado and is stilll standing tall.

6. Have you guys forgot that this website is about CEDAR POINT Not Disney?

7.If you guys like cp so much then why are you dissing it, I have barely seen any positive things about cedar poiont.

8. If you want to talk about disney this is not the place.

9.Someone said that cp doesn't spend enough money on their rides or something like that,well it tock 25 millon dollers to build one ride(TTD).

10.Now I'm not saying that Diney is dumb or stupid, Im just saying that this is not an apropriate place to talk about disney. Actualy I love visiting Disney. But, that's no reason to start dissing CP.

11. Jeff you said that disney is cheesy. What about Tower of terror, Rocken roller coaster, Expedition Everest,Space Moutain, Mission space, etc.

12. Disney World is a theme park. Cedar Point is an amusment park. These are two completely different things.

13.What if Tony or Tyler (from the CP online blog) came here and saw this? Now I'm not a feeler but I'm saying that I'm sorry about this blog.

14.We all know that disney has a higher quality than CP, but no need to stretch that this far.

And finaly, if this is suppose to be the best cedar point website to find info and news then why are you guys dissing it? If someone was planning a trip to cedar point and came here for advise and saw this, I dont think they would go. They would say,"hey look, even the CP fans think that CP isn't worth it." Please reconsider what you're doing to cedar points reputation. Reconsider what you're saying. I still think that disney is a wonderfull place but when i come here i want to hear how wonderfull cedar point is not how it compares to Disney.

You are what you eat.