No 2005 Coaster?

U dont have to post like 3 times...thats what the edit button is for.

Does your "silver-tag buddy" sell frozen lemon treats?

Well, once upon a time he did. Then he got promoted. :)

*** Edited 8/24/2004 12:40:15 PM UTC by Top Thrill ATC***

Top Thrill ATC, you misinterpreted my post. I wasn't claiming GL would get some fabulous coaster, I was saying that they will get more than their fair share of capital monies. There's a big difference. Those monies will be diverted from other parks (such as CP) that probably would have used them to put in a fabulous coaster. I was hypothesizing that GL might be the reason CP would take a back seat in the 2005 capital plan.

Kinzel won't let GL become an albatross around his neck. It's a major decision to spend that kind of money, and right now it looks like a horrible one. That reflects directly on his leadership. He will "take care" of GL, if for nothing else to save face. I don't know if he will be adding rides, replacing rides, removing rides, or sprucing the place up in impressive fashion, but I bet they will spend a disproportionate amount of capital money there in 2005.

Unfortunately, that money could be spent more effectively at any other Cedar Fair park, with a much higher probability of return on the investment. That's where I take issue with the whole GL acquisition. It had "loser" and "money pit" stamped all over it right from the get-go.

A giant flat will attract more people to the park. Look at PKI's last two installations...Tomb Raider: The Ride and Delirium. Both caused an increase in attendance for them, so it could work for CP.

TTD is sinking too!

Hmm, thinking back, perhaps I did misinterpret your posting...I was immediately thinking a new coaster. New flat rides would be an awesome addition.

As far as Kinzel letting GL become an "albatross around his neck" (great wording, btw) I still think they bought GL as a way of eliminating the competition. Why? They now own their major competition. So, if people decide they don't want to drive the extra 40 minutes to the Point from Cleveland/Youngstown, etc., they can still go to a CF park and the company will prosper.

I'd like to see something done to GL, because it's just not a place I enjoy when I go there. I was overjoyed when I heard of the acquisition last March, yet furious that they installed seatbelts on the Big Dipper. Kind of a love/hate relationship!

Take care.

Top Thrill ATC, you don't need to convince me that Cedar Fair will be selling GL land. I speculated back at the time of the acquisition (under my previous moniker "Millennium Force is Sinking Too") that they probably had no intention of operating GL long-term. It didn't make sense then, and it still doesn't today.

I figure they bought the park to (1) immediately eliminate competition, (2) (eventually) move better GL assets to other Cedar Fair parks, and (3) (eventually) sell the land, probably receiving more than the cost of the entire acquisition. Any operating profit in the meantime would be gravy. Unfortunately, it's never politically correct to say you're buying something to shut it down, even if that's your intent.

They could sell the Sea World land right now if they wanted. However, with Cedar Fair saying GL will be a "single day" park, who's going to spend tens of millions to build overnight resorts? If it is (or they can get it) zoned residential, who will aggressively build knowing there's noise and congestion until midnight on every day during the summer? Someone would take a chance, but wouldn't pay "mega-bucks". Now, if those developers knew that ALL the land around the lake would be available, you're talking "mega-bucks" . . . The time to sell the land will come, but I'm guessing it won't be now.

Anyway, I know my hypothesis is a "long shot", and even if I'm right these things don't happen overnight. If I'm right though, you'll be seeing signs of the "end" (transferring/removing assets, discussions with developers, zoning changes, etc.) in as little as 5 years. You'll also see Cedar Fair continue only token measures to get GL profitable. You'll see continued "alienation" on season pass policies/pricing, gate pricing, voucher/discount/advertising efforts, etc. Let's sit back and watch what happens.

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For the cost of WT, you could build at least 3 Huss Giants.

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What planet do you live on? A standard Top Spin is $3 million, and I can assure you a giant one is at the very least $5 million, probably more.

PKI spent $2 million on Delirium (a giant frisbee) itself, plus construction as stated in their press releases and to us on media day. A standard Top spin is $3 million including construction (site prep, lanscaping, electrical work, actual erection of the ride, water fountains to spray the ride, etc). $2-3 million per ride would equal about the $9 million they spent on WT.

A giant top spin? Don't know that cost. $5 million sounds about right. *** Edited 8/24/2004 3:35:51 PM UTC by Top Thrill ATC***

I'm looking at the press release here... it makes no mention of the cost of Delirium. Nor does the fact sheet released on media day. The cost of peripheral work is included in the cost, including WT.

We all think you're talking out of your ass, if it wasn't obvious from Walt's post. Those who know don't talk, those who talk don't know.

Call Jeff Siebert @ PKI and ask him! Were you there on Media day? I was. I was one of the first 50 people to ride it on media day (I still have the stupid Delerium underwear briefs issued to the riders). After exiting the ride, a very nice man with a name tag saying "Craig Ross" asked a bunch of us (including my good friend and Darkride And Funhouse Enthusiasts founder Rick and I, along with Michael, the founder of the Greater Ohio Coaster Club who didn't ride the first time) what we thought of it. It was mentioned by someone that they thought it was a little on the short side time-wise. He countered by telling us it was like getting 3 full-size coaster drops, only for the cost of $2 million instead of 10. Rick laughed and said that he didn't want to date himself, but he remembered when a major expansion for CP was a new $1 million attraction and that $2 million seemed like a good price.

You're right: its price is not in the press release, nor is it in the large folder of information distributed on media day. Were those of us there misled on the price? Perhaps. Can I prove what was said? Of course not. Huss rides aren't cheap and it makes no sense that a giant frisbee would be cheaper than a standard top spin, does it? Just passing along what I was told.

And for clarification, who's Walt again?

I'm Walt ... the one who brought up lemons earlier in this thread.

I'm staying out of the other debate ...

I was reading through the Lemon Chill thread and all I could think of is, Why couldn't the tunnel be made out of transparent aluminum? It would be stronger than glass and would also not need to be as thick.

This site claims PKI's Delirium cost $4.5M.

Those guys would probably know. They're more obsessed than we are.

Yeah as of what you guys are saying, I had a question. What If you spend both money at the smaller parks like Geauga Lake and Michigan Adventure? They could still build major coasters to these 2 parks without losing the business of Cedar Point. I doubt you'll lose crowds because a park below your best park got a newer coaster. Cedar Point has 16 coasters, and people will keep coming back just because they love Cedar Point and the atmosphere. Lets say Cedar Point builds the rumored Floorless/Flier, and Geauga Lake Builds a big attraction also in 2005. You'll have people coming back to Cedar Points Brother park, but you won't lose your attandance. Geauga Lake has good coasters, but a lot of people would rather go the distance to Cedar Point. A lot of times I've gone down to Geauga Lake and every time I've ridden Dominator, it's been a walk on. Now this season I haven't went there once, instead I've gone to Cedar Point 10 times. I think if you build the major coaster that they've been wanting down at Geauga Lake, it will get people back there, but I doubt it will hurt Cedar Point.

anyone think this will have an affect on what CP gets? RipTide @ VFhttp://www.valleyfair.com/insidethepark/rides/coasterthrillrides/ridedetails.cfm?id=119 Just in case you didnt see it *** Edited 8/26/2004 2:07:55 AM UTC by CP=#1***

Not really. You realize the VF name, video and theming were 'borrowed' from KBF, right?

Were you responding to me?

You better hope that CP DOES'NT get a top spin... My home park PCW has one by the name of Cliffhanger and it is anything but thrilling/exciting/intense. My friends also think the ride is boring... But different people have different opinions.

-Tom