Halloweekends 2011

The "Scare Forward" treatment. Best thing to teach your actors when you have pacing problems.

The thing is...King's Island seemingly has even larger crowds than Cedar Point to work with, and I just didn't ever experience the stacking problem there.

What they did differently is they let people in slower and in max groups of 4-6. The wait times were indeed longer, but the experience wasn't ruined. I think this is the main reason that people say KI's haunted houses are better or scarier. No matter how amazing the actors are, how intricate the props are, or how well the haunted houses are put together, stacking will completely ruin the whole experience.

Another thing KI does alot of (and I seem to remember CP implementing in their new house last year?)...they divide up the houses into many enclosed areas with curtains and other obstructions. This greatly reduces the "one long line" feel seen in CP's houses...especially Happy Jack's on a busy day. Happy Jack's needs more division.

I got the pleasure of going through Cedar Point's houses on a dead Sunday last year, and I was amazed at how good they actually were, with great Screamsters. It was simply the Friday stacking that was sucking the life out.

This brings me to an idea. The major problem days for Haunted houses being packed are Friday and Saturday. What if Cedar Point gave Platinum Pass holders 1-hour early entrance to the Haunted Houses on Friday & Saturday? All the critics of the haunted houses are likely Platinum Pass holders, so this would give them great experiences likely without the stacking issue, and the good word would spread around. Secondly, it'd cut down on the waits / stacking later for regular guests, as the passholders would already be through the houses, onto the rides for the night...

So, your answer is to have two lines an hour or more long before the house even opens up? Wow, I would love to have to walk through that mess in the midway. And, you can't open an hour earlier because that would take away the whole overlord thing. Most Platinum pass holders know to go on Sunday.

And, I was at KI late last season and they had the same stacking issues CP did. Someone pointed out Universal's problem with crowd control and it was absolutley true two years ago, couldn't imagine what it must be like now with the Halloween time of the year being so popular.

Erik Lee said:
So, your answer is to have two lines an hour or more long before the house even opens up? Wow, I would love to have to walk through that mess in the midway. And, you can't open an hour earlier because that would take away the whole overlord thing. Most Platinum pass holders know to go on Sunday.

I don't understand what you're saying with your first sentence. Two lines an hour or more long for what? Mess on the midway? Huh?

I'm saying to admit Platinum Pass holders an hour early to the houses on Friday & Saturday, much like the early ride time already in place. Platinum Pass holders are a select audience, and the waits would likely be minimal, maybe non-existent. This would be an experiment though; you or I don't know how it'd be like in reality. I'd predict a good outcome judging by other Platinum Pass events though.

Overlord ceremony wouldn't be ruined...plenty of Screamsters left beyond the staffing of a few haunted houses. They could even open up the front 3 houses only, since they're so close together.

And maybe your experience at King's Island was the same as CP, but I find it very hard to believe based on my past 3 years. If you went at the end of October though, maybe that was the problem. I've gone 3 years in a row to KI, the 2nd weekend they're open (late Sept - very early Oct) on Friday, and there has been virtually no stacking all 3 years.

They were very strict about only letting groups of 4-6 in at a time (even splitting up larger groups), and they waited what seemed like a good minute between. In contrast, at Happy Jacks they were letting in swarms of 10+ every 15-20 seconds. I've gone to Cedar Point on Friday in the same general time period, and I've experienced 1 giant line of stopped people in nearly every house, year after year (always the worst in Happy Jack's). The waiting lines for houses at King's Island are much slower-moving than CP's, so there is clearly a different approach. I'd take KI's method anytime though.

Let me give you my two cents from a screamster point of view. Each year we are taught at scare school on how to scare people and the different ways to scare. But it takes a couple of weeks for the screamsters to get the grove and timing down to scare. But what I wish Cedar Point can do is be able to close the park for a hour or so like they do at Kings Island and other parks. But that will never happen because Cedar Point would lose money and customers. But you got to admit that Cedar Point have really envolve into a powerhouse of a haunted attraction. The last two year we have won the frightmaster award. Which is awarded to the best haunted attraction in the business.

What I was trying to say, is that people are lined up an hour and half before these attractions even open the quees up. Especially the new one by Maverick, can't remember the name and don't feel like looking it up. By mess, I mean wadding through people waiting for said attraction. Granted, not much can be done about either of these problems with the way Halloweekends are so busy.

I didn't mean to debunk your idea. I think I didn't understand exactly what you had in mind. The hour early thing could work. Don't think it will ever happen though! And, yes I go to KI late in the season every year. CP is two hours closer to me then KI, so I go there more often.

Yeah, Halloweekends have definitely grown into a powerhouse and have gotten better and better, with some really great Screamsters.

And it's paying off...the crowds are seemingly growing every year, with Fridays no longer the light crowd gems they used to be.

The extra hour on Sunday and addition of scare zones last year was awesome, and I wish they'd even increase closing to 10PM as an experiment. The crowds were definitely not thinning at 9PM imo.

I think with the much increased popularity on Friday & Saturday though, it's time to try some new things to combat the crowds. That's why I was throwing out an idea. And there are plenty of other ideas...how about trying a 3-4PM opening on Friday or opening up the haunted houses to all earlier in the day, like Sunday...it doesn't need to be dark out for them.

I realize the implications of wanting a "friendly" time period for kids and that shifts too long for Screamsters wouldn't work out. But, it could all be figured out. My worry though is that attendance might start falling from the unpleasant experiences with extreme Saturday crowds.

About 2 years ago, I was asked to go to Halloweekends on a Saturday. I warned my friend's family that Saturday was not the best day to go, as it'd be completely packed. They didn't listen or seem to care, and I just went along to see the difference in attendance compared to Sunday.

I had never seen CP so crowded in my life. All parking spaces were consumed, continuing down the causeway. The waits for haunted houses and major rides were 2-3 hours. Minor rides like the Monster had 30+ minute waits, and even Mean Streak clocked in at 1.5 hours.

My friend's family acted like "Why would anyone want to come here?" because of the crowds, they did nothing but walk around the park for a couple hours (which was even a challenge), and then left. I kept reassuring them that it wasn't like this at all on Sunday, but they've never returned since.

99er said:
[It IS possible to scare guests in large groups or one continuous line.

Very true. Failure to properly do this is the #1 reason I get on people's case in my zone.

I've not been to KI's haunt personally (still mad about them shutting down due to a little rain) but I've heard complaints from others about pacing issues there as well. I suspect there are very few attractions out there that manage to avoid this issue 100% of the time. The only one I've personally been to that did only managed to do it because there was an actor personally guiding each group, only stopping in each room for an allotted period of time before moving everyone on to the next one.

I think they need to fix the long line problem!!! last year the lines were 3 hrs long for one attraction heck i could go to the factory of fear go threw 5 haunted houses get scared more and have a better time bc the lines are not 3 hr long!

Ralph Wiggum said:

99er said:
[It IS possible to scare guests in large groups or one continuous line.

Very true. Failure to properly do this is the #1 reason I get on people's case in my zone.

I prefer to scare in large crowds than one continuous line because it is easier to reset. However, long continuous lines are inevitable due to stacking, slow walkers, people enjoying the scenery (ie. standing still while taring at MF), great actors, bad actors, etc.. You've got to know how to scare in all situations and unfortunately, not everyone knows how to do that right away. Not to mention, the superfluous amount of snobby brats that increases in every year, that caters to the stack effect.

Last year Cedar Point broke the all time one day record with more than 65,000 people in the park. What this tells me is that Cedar Point need to figure out a new way to combat the amount of people that are there. Like I said im all for closing the park for a hour so Cedar Point can turn into a more "adult" scare atomsphere. This would give the screamsters more freedom to scare, without the worry of scaring little kids.

In a perfect world, traffic flow would be solved by limiting the amount of guests in the park.

However, in a world where attendance figures are the highest priority (especially at the end of the season when you're creeping ever-so-slowly to 3 million but haven't hit it yet), they'll take what they can get at the expense of good guest service.

It's the same mantra over and over again. Attendance is the #1 focus. As a result, everything else that relates to attendance suffers (including ride and food staffing, attractions being closed and inexperienced volunteers working at the park during the busiest time of the year).

This is not going to be a popular statement but I will say it anyway. I think they need to raise ticket prices, especially during HW when the park is at (or over) capacity. The could do something like charge more for Saturday, then, offer the regular rate or a reduced rate on Sundays to balance out the crowds a bit. I think it makes perfect sense too, especially when you consider that some of the Sundays do not feature any haunted events earlier in the HW season.

It's simply a matter of profit maximization, finding the ticket price that achieves this goal. If the park has 65,000 people in it, not too many people are going to be happy, and they are not necessarily maximizing revenue. Similarly, too few people will not be as profitable. Somewhere in the middle lies a higher ticket price and slightly lower crowd level, where everyone wins.

Yeah, I definitely agree that the gate price is too low. I'd rather see it bumped up by about $10, along with lower food prices (or at least vastly improved food quality).

'unhappy patrons',based on their experience of too large a crowd,will be hesitant for future visits. Large crowds help the current bottom financial line, but don't do anything to ensure future visits.

Based on the ever-increasing crowds that show up for HW each year, I don't think large crowds are making anyone hesitant to return.

Well, I'm hesitant to return to Halloweekends, or at least to do so on a Saturday. I'm assuming I'm not the only one.

True. But again, based on the ever-increasing crowds at HW every year, I'd say you're in the minority (not to mention that being an oft-visiting enthusiast crams us more securely in the minority category).

But yeah, I feel hesitant as well. The only reason I even go into the park on a HW Saturday is for BooBuzz. And even then, I head in for morning ERT, and that's typically the extent of my day, save for perhaps coming back in to take in the atmosphere.

Jeff really needs to start scheduling BooBuzz when the weather isn't so damn awesome. ;)

I might have mentioned this idea before. One thing the park could do to help with the surplus crowds would be to open HW attractions at Soak City. The whole waterpark stands empty throughout the fall -- why not put it to good use? They could easily convert one of the empty pools to a walk through zone, though putting in an actual haunted house would be more problematic. Still, I think it's a concept with merit.

A Soak City haunt would be really cool. Use one or both of the rivers for a walk-thru maze like Cornstalkers. I think that would work well and would deffinatly move people from the Frontier Trail to that side of the park.