CO movie theater shooting and metal detectors at CP

So either metal detectors don't detect metal, or guns and knives aren't made of metal any more? I missed that memo.

clevelander said:Just wait until until the busloads of hoodlums return from Detroit this September or October. Remember the near riot conditions last year? Many people complained about the fights and lack of security all day around several areas of the park.

How would metal detectors possibly have helped the problems seen last Halloweekends? The devices detect metal, not teenage doucebaggery.

Next time you go to Cedar Point, see if you can find all of the places where you can get anything into the park, metal or otherwise. There are literally miles of fences.

Screwed up people will do screwed up things, always. No amount of reactionary response is ever going to change that or make anyone safer.

If you time it right you can just drive your car nuke right on in the gate under Blue Streak or by Millennium Force

I'm pretty sure that if you have access to that kind of weapon, you only need to be within a few miles of your target, what with the vaporizing light, fire ball and wave of energy that flattens everything.

I admit that there are any number of ways to get weapons into the park, given a bit of premeditation and nefariousness. But at least detectors serve to stymie your casual murderer.

Oh, hell. I can't play devil's advocate with this argument any more. I'm just not into it tonight, anyway.

Alas that's the point. A metal detector isn't good at detecting something that's been premeditated. At best it is only a deterrent. But even the stupidest maniac can figure out the best way to carry out their plans if they're that hell bent on carrying it out. So then the scene becomes "Man sneaks past metal detectors with gun, shoots unfortunate park patrons." THEN it becomes "We need full body scans and searches for every guest that wants to gain access to the park." And even then it's not a guarantee as proven by the TSA. Thus continues the endless cycle of the different ways to provide the illusion of security.

Also, as pointed out by others, there's nothing to stop a scene in ANY of the parking lots and resorts outside of park boundaries.

Let's say CP added detectors. When a crazy guy, who plans on shooting up the place, shows up with his glock and AK47 at the detectors and is told that he can't enter the park with those, what do you think he is going to do? Turn around and go home?

Metal detectors are a waste.

Very valid point. Although, if he is caught with those weapons, he would not be told to just "go home". Yes, the metal detectors will be a waste most of the time, but what if that one time it saves lives. I do not see the harm of taking a little more of our time, for added security.

At Kennywood Park there are metal detectors there (there always have been). But the "security" are nothing but old men and stupid "rent-a-cops" that take their job too seriously. They gave this poor fellow a hard time just because he had steel toe shoes. They are always mean, uncooperative, and downright miserable.

Personally, why not have metal detectors? Ask yourself, is it really that big of a deal to have a little bit of security?

^^^Is that an AK47 you're poorly concealing or are you just happy to see me?

^Ask yourself then how having a metal detector will stop a man from shooting up the parking lot. The point is not that they SHOULDN'T have them but that they DON'T save lives or that it's never and will never be a guarantee. It's not some kind of superhero. Like I (and others) have said, there's nothing stopping the person from doing damage OUTSIDE of the park gates. And since there's places to "sneak in" anyway, they are then rendered useless. Widespread surveillance is more key IMO than a device in select locations.

I just see no use to have them if there's NEVER been a need for them.

I agree with the widespread surveillance and guards. I guess you can't go on living your life in fear of a lunatic shooting up everyone. That's why I'm going to Cedar Point next weekend.

Oh and some of my friends were saying that they would never go to a movie again because of this shooting. It blew me away how people can be so afraid after such a rare event.

Its comical how some of you think a metal detector will stop a psycho with a gun. Are you all forgetting that a gun is kind of a "key" to go anywhere you want? That includes walking through the metal detector and even past the turnstiles.

wickedtwistermaster 9,876 said:
...for added security.

Cp 6092 said:
...is it really that big of a deal to have a little bit of security?

I could quote more posts like this, but I don't think any of you are listening. There is no more security. That's the point the opposition is making a pretty clear case for over and over again. It addresses a problem that doesn't exist today, and in the event that it was present, it wouldn't prevent these kinds of violent events anyway. You're ignoring the fundamental truth that anything that can happen in the park can happen at the gate, or anywhere in public.

Yes this obviously can happen anywhere. Although I know I'm not living the rest of my life a pessimist that worries about getting shot every where I go.

Most security is based around the idea that the person would want to get away with their crime, or at least live. If you have person who truly does not care whether they live or die, it makes it nearly impossible to take preemptive protective measures. As others have pointed out, a few seconds of brainstorming leads one to concoct any number of plans that could be executed at Cedar Point that would ensure maximum destruction/injury/death, assuming the perpetrator has a death wish.

Metal detectors could be a deterrent against a sane person who might want to steal money from the park, hold up a food stand, etc., but I think most sane people who are criminally-minded would choose an easier target, and one with a higher potential for recovery. Outside of National Lampoon, who holds up an amusement park? They also might deter a hot-headed person who has nothing premeditated, but who might get into some sort of escalating confrontation that could turn deadly with a weapon.

They just aren't going to protect against a lunatic rampage. And since this suggestion was brought up before the Colorado victims are even in the ground, I'd consider it to be very knee-jerk.

Ugh, let this thread die already. This is such needlessly dark discussion for CP. Cedar Point will not suddenly be overrun with crazed killers, gangs, and hoodlums because of an incident in CO.

It will continue to be the happy, safe place we all know with an active security force. If things change with time, I trust that CP will make the necessary security adjustments, or their business will die.

Walt said:
Often quoted, but always worth bringing up:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Benjamin Franklin

Exactly what I was going to post. It's very relevant every time these knee jerk reactions to these kinds of things are brought up. That being said, I have little doubt that every movie theater in the country is about to place an order for some metal detectors. Paranoia seems to rule supreme.

Jeff said:

Screwed up people will do screwed up things, always. No amount of reactionary response is ever going to change that or make anyone safer.

Could not agree more. Where there's a will, there's a way. As it relates to CP, I think the CPPD do a fine job of preventing and stopping most "average" crimes in the park. But no amount of security is going to stop a determined lunatic.

If you want to hold up an amusement park, don't even go inside. Pull your heist at the parking toll booth. There is probably more cash there than at the admission gate, and it is a softer target. Just don't do it at Magic Mountain, where the County Sheriff has a substation right across from said toll booth.

As for why metal detectors are worthless at amusement parks, the most obvious reason is that they have a nearly 100% false positive rate if they are set to be sensitive enough to detect a weapon. And if you dial back the sensitivity enough to not catch all the cell phones, pocket change, cameras, shoe inserts, and other "normal" stuff, then you won't catch the weapons either.

They are very expensive (both in capital costs and in operational costs and opportunity costs) and very specialized, so specialized that they generally won't catch the most common threats, even as they cause widespread inconvenience and do damage to people's initial impression of the facility.

Manual bag searches are slightly more effective, but they are better at catching picnic lunches than they are at catching weapons. After all, if I am carrying a weapon, I am not going to put it into my bag, subject to search...but into my pocket, which is not. But if I am carrying a hoagie...well, that won't fit into my pocket...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Is that a hoagie in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?