CO movie theater shooting and metal detectors at CP

Metal detectors don't do much when somebody (like a lunatic murderer) decided they won't listen to them.

That movie theater should go out of business. They were a "gun free zone" that didn't allow CCW. The owner made the decision to post those signs that didn't allow people with a CCW to carry their weapon, then this happens. So much for gun free zone.

Vette said:
Metal detectors don't do much when somebody (like a lunatic murderer) decided they won't listen to them.

That movie theater should go out of business. They were a "gun free zone" that didn't allow CCW. The owner made the decision to post those signs that didn't allow people with a CCW to carry their weapon, then this happens. So much for gun free zone.

I still fail to see how CCW is the end-all be-all solution to this, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms that I really don't want to touch much further.

I don't want to get in a debate over it, but I was more saying that the place advertised on the front door (that's where the "no CCW allowed" posters are at) as a No-gun zone. If that's a false sense of security, I don't know what is.

Authorities say Holmes bought a ticket to the movie, then left through an exit door that he propped open. He removed body armor and three firearms from a car in the parking lot and returned to carry out his carnage. . .

The four firearms recovered by police were two .40-caliber Glock pistols (one of which was found in a car parked in a lot behind back of the theater), a Remington 12-gauge shotgun, and a Smith & Wesson .223-caliber AR-15-style rifle, the semi-automatic civilian version of the military's M-16. The Associated Press has reported Holmes had a "drum" magazine for the AR-15. These can hold as many as 100 rounds. . .

The firearms were all purchased legally and recently at local stores in May, June and July. Holmes also carried at least two explosive canisters of an unknown, irritating gas that he set off in the theater before opening fire. He wore a gas mask, a ballistic helmet, a bullet-resistant vest, and leg, groin and throat protectors.

Shades said:
Playing devil's advocate - what procedures does the park have that keeps me from bringing in a gun and shooting people at the Red Garter? Seems like anyone could do that at any time. I am NOT saying to put in metal detectors. But saying that you are comfortable with the park having procedures in place to keep violence from happening seems a bit "bubble wrapped".

They use various types of surveillance, I don't know enough about law enforcement to give you a better answer. Maybe my thoughts are bubble wrapped, but I really do believe that CPPD can keep guests of the park very safe. Of course nothing is perfect, but my original point was that it is better than metal detectors.

Metal detectors were originally put in place at airports on the premise that passengers would sneak weapons on the plane undetected. The terminal wasn't at risk, would be hijackers would wait until the plane is airborne to make their move.

Amusement parks are totally different. If someone wants to shoot up a park, and they know metal detectors are in being used, why not just shoot up the gate area and break into the park to shoot more victims? Unlike airplanes, there is no point in waiting until you are in the park to start shooting. Especially a park like CP, where a shooter can find as many targets outside the park as he can inside, metal detectors would only be eye candy to fool guests into thinking they are safe. Security in an amusement park is more like protecting a city that happens to have rides rather than trying to keep the bad guys out of vehicles like airplanes.

Almost every trip I've ever made to the park I've driven around Perimeter Road and seen at least 1 backstage gate open. Could pretty easily go in one of those with a rifle and clean house if you wanted to. Metal detectors at the gate would do nothing then.

I think Pete hit the nail on the head in his last post. There's no reason for someone to wait until they are int he park when they could do just as much damage outside, or could easily start shooting and clear out one of the gates.

If a person really wanted to shoot up the park, metal detectors aren't going to stop them.

When metal detectors are used at places like amusement park or schools, it's not to prevent some tragic, but rare, mass killing spree. Instead, they are there to serve as a visible deterrent to those who might be tempted to bring weapons that could potentially cause problems. The types of crimes they find themselves concerned with are not premeditated, but rather random acts of disorderly conduct, assault, etc.

Cedar Point has never had any kind of problem with weapon violence, therefore has never had the need to use that level of deterrent. And there's nothing in that department that has changed in the last 24 hours.

+1000 internet points to Walt and Pete (and a few others)

Hmmm, if I didn't know better, I'd say that metal detectors are some kind of magical device that prevent people from carrying guns into the places they're installed at. They aren't? Well, I guess I'll just stay home for the rest of my life.

And in regards to the TSA
malarkey
.

::here that? It's the sound of your constitutional amendments flying out the window::

"The woman who checked me reached her hands inside my underwear and felt her way around."

Wow. How much do I have to pay to get pat down by a female TSA agent?

I have yet to see a female TSA agent who I would even want giving me a pat down.

Spoken like a man who's getting some.

I agree with 99er 1000% percent.

Walt said:

Cedar Point has never had any kind of problem with weapon violence, therefore has never had the need to use that level of deterrent. And there's nothing in that department that has changed in the last 24 hours.

That seems awful close to me saying that I have never been in a car accident in my 28 years of driving therefore I don't have the need for the level of airbags that come equipped in my car that I had to pay extra for.

Just because something has never happened does not always mean that it will not happen.

I don't think Walt is saying (nor would Cedar Point say) that just because something hasn't been a problem means that it will never be a problem. There are a whole host of unlikely risks that Cedar Point could take steps to address. Should they? Will it mean that they spend less time/money on other more likely security risks?

Doesn't mean that CP wouldn't, and doesn't, adjust their procedures as situations change. I suspect like most businesses which involve large groups of guests/customers, that security is pretty dynamic/fluid. Its constantly monitored and evaluated and adjusted as necessary.

And it may just be dumb luck that that type of weapon violence hasn't been a problem at CP because of blind luck. It may also be the case that security which is in place at the park (both that which we can see and that which we cannot) is also a factor is the lack of that type of problem.

Maybe I read too much into Walt's comment. I agree that knee jerk reactions to make drastic changes based on a single incident is not warranted, but the knee jerk reaction in the opposite direction saying that no changes are needed because of a single incident are almost as bad.

Get the facts of what happened, learn from what happened, and re-evaluate what policy/procedure is, and make changes if needed based on the review. That is what makes sense to me

+1

PyroKinesis said:
Does anybody remember why 9/11 happened?.

Because they hate freedom, right? Oh, that was just to sell us on a war against a country that posed no threat to our security in any way, shape or form. My bad.

What bothers me about the post-9/11 America is that, to this day, everyone was more interested in how it happened, and no one ever asks why. It's for that reason that we'll likely make the same mistakes. In this case, you need to look at the complexities of foreign policy and how it has fed religious extremism for decades. There are underlying causes that motivated the terrorists, and airport security had nothing to do with it. In fact, if you read some of the opinions of security experts, they would suggest that the 9/11 terrorists could in fact pull of the same plot with today's security, with the only difference being that investigative work might prevent it, and the Air Force would most certainly shoot down a passenger plane before it crashed into any buildings.

The dude who shot up the movie theater, or anyone who shoots up anything, will have underlying motivators as well. In these cases, it nearly always comes down to socioeconomic problems and mental health.

Here's the reality for you: Crime in the US is actually down more than 40% in the last 20 years. That's a fact. What surprises me about that is that we've also seen unprecedented population growth in the same time.

Bad people will do bad things, sometimes randomly. What some of you think is "security" that will add to your safety are living in a dream world.

And for the record, the TSA is a waste of time. The airline is already raping me and making me uncomfortable, I don't need the government to do it as well.

Shades said:
Just because something has never happened does not always mean that it will not happen.

I'm not saying they have to wait for something to happen, but rather the potential for threat needs to be great enough to warrant some action.

At my home park, Carowinds we have always used metal detectors. That was why I was kind of shocked when I visited Kings Island and Cedar Point for the first time and you could just walk right on in. Of course I didn't feel like I was less safe at these parks rather than Carowinds because of this, but I do welcome the metal detectors since they provide more good than inconvenience.

But they don't... That's the point. They won't stop anyone from getting anything dangerous in (demonstrated several times at KI), they cause complacency, and as others have pointed out, you can do just as much damage outside of the gate as you could inside.