Cedar Point Announces Valravn - Dive Coaster for 2016 - 10 World Records!

Whether Valravn is everything I ever wanted or not doesn't really matter. They're building a new coaster, it's gonna be a big one, and I'm gonna ride it. That pretty much sums up my feelings about it.

I'm well aware of cedar points additions over the past several decades. It would be nice if people actually read and digested everything that was said and thought about it for a minute before posting all the great things you know about the park. You act as if someone who has been a member of the point buzz community since the late nineties wouldn't know and consider all of these facts before posting their general dissatisfaction.

So let's start at the beginning. "Family" means generally younger kids with adults. There's two types of this. Young kiddie land and older flats and small coasters. (Ie 36" to 52").

If you look I state things like "generally" or qualify statements with things like "But not entirely". This should instantly communicate to you that there are things I did/do like when it comes to the parks moves.

So someone posted all this stuff about the family additions. The light show is pretty good. And planet snoopy was an improvement over the old attraction. Bet lets face it, that was just a piece of the GLP flesh that was canibalized. Hell it did and still has duplicates from other parts of the park. Really not that ground breaking. And not nearly as significant as camp snoopy was.

And why even bring up the dinosaurs. Can't we agree that even five year olds aren't fooled?

So my big beef is less with kiddie lands (which I feel is on par with the offerings at KI and better yet spread out), even though there are things I would like to see improved; and more about the older mid sized rides. There has been a general movement away. From rides that younger thrill riders can enjoy. Bothflat and coasters. The pipe scream and midway improvement were nice. The Eagles is a great addition and the PS is just plain fun (even if it isn't a real coaster). But you have to go back to 1997 for the last mid sized flat. And that's already gone. Plus we've lost two really fine small coasters to be replaced with nothing of the same stature, and my favorite is the raising of the iron dragon height restrictions. Then we loose the turnpike cars and (from my anecdotal experience) the best family show in the park.

Now here's where the new ride fits in. They clear all that land. Remove attractions that people liked. Move others at some expense. And they go with a dive coaster? Seriously? First a dive coaster is nothing more than a gimmick concept. And it doesn't do anything the best. You wNt to go straight down? Well TTD goes straight down for four hundred feet. It doesn't have the most or best inversions. It isn't particularly long. All it has, that nothing else has, is a four second stall on the first drop. Hardly ground breaking if you ask me, And it takes up all that space. And moved all those modest attractions. And nothing in filling it in. One coaster that will most certainly be for one type of park goer. There is no reason to go down that path but for one coaster.

So much more could have been done.

Now I love big coasters. And for twenty years this park broke amazing ground and put the industry on its back and showed the other regional parks how to do it. But somewhere between Millenium and TTD they lost the vision. They no longer are on the cutting edge. Maverick was a great add, but the rest just don't stack up in my opinion. Rougarou was a clever move, and it will pay off. But it isn't a signature ride. Gatekeeper will be a staple for years, but it really isn't in he mold of the other great rides. Fun and most certainly someone's favorite, but not a legendary ride. And rest assured there are parks building legendary rides in the meantime.

So here they had an opportunity to build something great, something no one has seen. Or something that would expand the park in a way we haven't seen since camp snoopy (as in adding a new midway). And they roll with a lone dive coaster. If you're going to blow your wad on one ride, you really should offer up something more I think. It's my same reaction to TTD, except at least TTD was really ground breaking in some ways. But I wonder if a ride like that is even paid for itself yet.... It's not like attendance can go up by just building more coasters.

Anyway, you bring in a mouse guy to bring in their trade secrets, and we get more of the same, but not nearly as well done as the last guy in his prime. So much for all that talk. Cedar point earned a reputation for being the best, the last ten years doesn't live up to that reputation. This is why there was a regime change. But yet we get more of the same, and don't even get me started on customer service...

I scratched my head too when I saw Gatekeeper get a special recognition. I love the ride, but I thought if Gatekeeper got a special recognition then Raptor outta get one too.

gener said:

And why even bring up the dinosaurs. Can't we agree that even five year olds aren't fooled?

Can we agree that no one is "fooled", and that Cedar Point continues to charge for the attraction because guests who aren't entitled enthusiasts consider it to be worth the cost of admission?

...more about the older mid sized rides. There has been a general movement away. From rides that younger thrill riders can enjoy. Bothflat [sic] and coasters.

This hand: corporation with millions of dollars on the line. That hand: entitled enthusiast. Hm. I'm guessing the party with skin in the game has a better sense of what the market wants.

Plus we've lost two really fine small coasters to be replaced with nothing of the same stature...

How rude of the park, pursuing its own goals instead of indulging yours.

Remove attractions that people liked.

Because any company that relies on the goodwill of customers is going to deliberately antagonize customers this way...

And they go with a dive coaster? Seriously? First a dive coaster is nothing more than a gimmick concept.

Unlike any other coaster in the park that isn't Blue Streak?

Gemini? Blue Streak with two tracks. Magnum? Blue Streak, taller. Millennium Force? Blue Streak, even taller. Maverick? Blue Streak with a launch.

And it doesn't do anything the best.

If only you'd had the chance to ride this coaster so as to determine it doesn't do "anything the best". Of course, since this coaster doesn't currently exist, there's no way for you to know if it does "anything the best".

It doesn't have the most or best inversions. It isn't particularly long.

Well. How rude of Cedar Fair to consider installing a coaster that doesn't meet your meaningless rubrics.

Hardly ground breaking if you ask me,

Pretty sure that no one with the park -- you know, the only folks with skin in the game -- asked you.

And it takes up all that space.

You do realize that the company can utilize that space in coming years, don't you? Say, by tearing down Cedars, moving Perimeter Road and taking advantage of what will be unused space under and around Valravn?

They no longer are on the cutting edge.

Well. I'm sure Ouimet lifts his head every now and then, whilst counting profits, to despair that the company is no longer on the cutting edge.

And rest assured there are parks building legendary rides in the meantime.

Actually? Rest assured there are parks building rides that they expect will be profitable. If those rides turn out to strike the astoundingly tiny number of guests who are coaster enthusiasts as "legendary", all the better,

So here they had an opportunity to build something great, something no one has seen.

That is important to entitled enthusiasts. Not to for profit corporations.

Or something that would expand the park in a way we haven't seen since camp snoopy (as in adding a new midway).

That is important to entitled enthusiasts. Not to for profit corporations.

If you're going to blow your wad on one ride, you really should offer up something more I think.

Why?

But I wonder if a ride like that is even paid for itself yet.... It's not like attendance can go up by just building more coasters.

Pretty sure that for-profit corporations with billions of dollars on the line have a better grip on this than online fanboys.

I was wondering, since this is b&m's 100th coaster, do they count mantis and rougarou as seperate coasters, or do they only count it as one?

They don't count it as two, Valravn will be 100 not counting retheming/reworking of coasters.

noggin said:

gener said:

And why even bring up the dinosaurs. Can't we agree that even five year olds aren't fooled?

Can we agree that no one is "fooled", and that Cedar Point continues to charge for the attraction because guests who aren't entitled enthusiasts consider it to be worth the cost of admission?

...more about the older mid sized rides. There has been a general movement away. From rides that younger thrill riders can enjoy. Bothflat [sic] and coasters.

This hand: corporation with millions of dollars on the line. That hand: entitled enthusiast. Hm. I'm guessing the party with skin in the game has a better sense of what the market wants.

Plus we've lost two really fine small coasters to be replaced with nothing of the same stature...

How rude of the park, pursuing its own goals instead of indulging yours.

Remove attractions that people liked.

Because any company that relies on the goodwill of customers is going to deliberately antagonize customers this way...

And they go with a dive coaster? Seriously? First a dive coaster is nothing more than a gimmick concept.

Unlike any other coaster in the park that isn't Blue Streak?

Gemini? Blue Streak with two tracks. Magnum? Blue Streak, taller. Millennium Force? Blue Streak, even taller. Maverick? Blue Streak with a launch.

And it doesn't do anything the best.

If only you'd had the chance to ride this coaster so as to determine it doesn't do "anything the best". Of course, since this coaster doesn't currently exist, there's no way for you to know if it does "anything the best".

It doesn't have the most or best inversions. It isn't particularly long.

Well. How rude of Cedar Fair to consider installing a coaster that doesn't meet your meaningless rubrics.

Hardly ground breaking if you ask me,

Pretty sure that no one with the park -- you know, the only folks with skin in the game -- asked you.

And it takes up all that space.

You do realize that the company can utilize that space in coming years, don't you? Say, by tearing down Cedars, moving Perimeter Road and taking advantage of what will be unused space under and around Valravn?

They no longer are on the cutting edge.

Well. I'm sure Ouimet lifts his head every now and then, whilst counting profits, to despair that the company is no longer on the cutting edge.

And rest assured there are parks building legendary rides in the meantime.

Actually? Rest assured there are parks building rides that they expect will be profitable. If those rides turn out to strike the astoundingly tiny number of guests who are coaster enthusiasts as "legendary", all the better,

So here they had an opportunity to build something great, something no one has seen.

That is important to entitled enthusiasts. Not to for profit corporations.

Or something that would expand the park in a way we haven't seen since camp snoopy (as in adding a new midway).

That is important to entitled enthusiasts. Not to for profit corporations.

If you're going to blow your wad on one ride, you really should offer up something more I think.

Why?

But I wonder if a ride like that is even paid for itself yet.... It's not like attendance can go up by just building more coasters.

Pretty sure that for-profit corporations with billions of dollars on the line have a better grip on this than online fanboys.

You do realize that other people have different perspectives and opinions, right?

Now here's where the new ride fits in. They clear all that land. Remove attractions that people liked. Move others at some expense. And they go with a dive coaster? Seriously? First a dive coaster is nothing more than a gimmick concept. And it doesn't do anything the best. You wNt to go straight down? Well TTD goes straight down for four hundred feet. It doesn't have the most or best inversions. It isn't particularly long. All it has, that nothing else has, is a four second stall on the first drop. Hardly ground breaking if you ask me, And it takes up all that space. And moved all those modest attractions. And nothing in filling it in. One coaster that will most certainly be for one type of park goer. There is no reason to go down that path but for one coaster.

I want to be the one to tell you that I understand where you're coming from, because I'm sure a lot of people on here are just going to refute most of your thoughts, despite you explaining your opinions so thoroughly. In terms of the ride, to me it looks pretty fun. Still, In the back of my head, I see myself thinking or wishing for more. I think a large chunk of us wanted to have our breath taken away, and the fact that there's nothing too terribly shocking about the ride is why we see such mixed feedback. There's not too much about it, other than its records, that stands out in the modern age of rides and coasters, and I totally get that.

I'm sure Noggin knows and respects other peoples opinions. It's the entitled enthusiast culture that is starting to give a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouth. It's one thing to be passionate about your hobby and generally enjoy doing it. Its another thing to be I guess passionate to a point you become an a**hole who can't enjoy the hobby without always finding something to complain about.

I don't belong to any clubs but I enjoy this hobby. What I hate seeing is people who partake yet never seem satisfied with what parks offer? Why do something if you're never happy? I constantly see people complain about FREE stuff parks give away at events. Or there not being enough FREE food at events, etc.. All things parks don't have to do. When I worked as a ride host for CF I will be honest and admit 9 times out of 10 we hated seeing guests come on our ride platforms wearing shirts from certain 3 letter coaster clubs, they were typically the biggest aholes in the park and never felt park rules or safety rules applied to them.

There just seems to be a huge segment of the enthusiast population who thinks park management for any chain or company surfs these forums or any coaster forum to see what we want added. That's just not how its done. And when rides don't meet the inflated standards we created in our mind when we dream up of rides we all get butt hurt. The days of Kinzel are over and I for one am grateful for that. Ouimet and his leadership team have taken a company on the brink of being sold to a company with record profits year after year. They have done that by making good sound investment decisions time and time again and sticking with companies like B&M which offer a quality built, reliable and safe product thats proven to work. Prototype and cutting edge technology is great, but what good does it do if it constantly broken?

Ripcord said:

You do realize that other people have different perspectives and opinions, right?

I do. Why do you think I shouldn't express my different perspective and opinion? I'm sorry, but the "I'm a coaster enthusiast and parks fail when they don't cater to my whims" sense of entitlement is distasteful to me.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think it's dumb to make judgments based on CG renderings. At least ride it before making a judgment. A coaster doesn't need to be intense for me to enjoy it. I think one of the most enjoyable aspects of Valravn will be the views. You will be in an entirely refreshed section of the park. I'm a little disappointed there won't be a tunnel or an underground part like I've seen featured on other dive coasters, but that won't hinder my enjoyment of the ride. And some things like that can be added in at the last minute. I think a nice walkway with a bridge going over the track connecting to Celebration Plaza would be cool.

gener said:

Anyway, you bring in a mouse guy to bring in their trade secrets, and we get more of the same, but not nearly as well done as the last guy in his prime.

He's just getting started.

WolfBobs said:

Gotta hand it to Cedar Point and their marketing team. They really stretched the "10 world records" claim. Only 4 of which actually pertain to the ride it self and of those only in the Dive Coaster category. Yet everywhere I look on social media people are excited about these "10 world records" being broken! Well played Cedar Point well played indeed.

They did the same thing with Millennium when it debuted in 2000. See this link for those ten records.

noggin said:

Ripcord said:

You do realize that other people have different perspectives and opinions, right?

I do. Why do you think I shouldn't express my different perspective and opinion? I'm sorry, but the "I'm a coaster enthusiast and parks fail when they don't cater to my whims" sense of entitlement is distasteful to me.

No one is stopping you from expressing your own perspective. But perhaps breaking apart someone's else's comment with a line by line critical response littered with sarcasm and personal insults isn't the most effective method. As it stands right now you seem less interested in sharing your views and more interested in marginilizing someone elses's.

It's a new, big roller coaster. Calm down everyone. What would you rather have?

Ripcord said:
It's a new, big roller coaster. Calm down everyone. What would you rather have?

GCI or RMC woodie. Nearly half the cost, and a better ride.

A better ride, based on your experience of riding both non-existent rides?

I would have preferred a woodie too but I knew from the beginning that my chances of getting one were slim to none so there's no point in me being upset about it.

Not to shoot anyone down on here, but with the addition of Valravn, where would you put a wooden roller coaster? If they do go that route, I see them messing with Mean Streak first rather than build from the ground up.

Shawn Meyer said:

where would you put a wooden roller coaster?

My backyard. Which I don't have. I also don't own Cedar Point or Cedar Fair, nor am I any way associated with the former companies' planning and design business units. :)