Cedar Point Announces New Water Ride for 2010 Season

tcgolfer said:
^. Good points. However I don't know very many people who want to see a dive machine at CP. I think that idea has been played out. When was the last dive machine built anyway?

Do you think the general public would agree with you?

There are only 2 in the whole united states(both busch parks). The last one was built 2 years ago at bgw. I went to that park a few times over the summer, and judging by the line and happy faces of the people getting off the ride, I would disagree with your statement.

You can almost use the same argument with dragster. How many of those were built?

crazy horse said:

tcgolfer said:^. Good points. However I don't know very many people who want to see a dive machine at CP. I think that idea has been played out. When was the last dive machine built anyway?

Do you think the general public would agree with you?There are only 2 in the whole united states(both busch parks). The last one was built 2 years ago at bgw. I went to that park a few times over the summer, and judging by the line and happy faces of the people getting off the ride, I would disagree with your statement.You can almost use the same argument with dragster. How many of those were built?

There are actually a quite a few xcellerator coasters out there. TTD, Ka, Stormrunner, Xcellerator are 4 off the top of my head. I don't know if the general public would fully agree with me or not. However when you consider how short the ride time is for one of those things I don't think it fits well at CP. Beyond that, the Cedar Point we all know and love likes to inovate. I don't think installing a coaster that has been done before is their cup of tea.All in my humble opinion of course.Ryan

There are actually a quite a few xcellerator coasters out there. TTD, Ka, Stormrunner, Xcellerator are 4 off the top of my head. I don't know if the general public would fully agree with me or not. However when you consider how short the ride time is for one of those things I don't think it fits well at CP. Beyond that, the Cedar Point we all know and love likes to inovate. I don't think installing a coaster that has been done before is their cup of tea.All in my humble opinion of course.Ryan

Every coaster that is at cedarpoint, has been done by other parks before cedarpoint decided to build one.

For example.....

Maverick.....storm runner(hp),xcelerator(kbf) Rock and rollercoaster(mgm) Flight of fear(ki), flight of fear(kd),poltergeist(sfft). One can also argue that the arrow shuttle loop coasters would fall into the same catagory.

Gemini..... Derby racer(euclid beach), grand natinal(bpb) space mountain(dl) Space mountain(dw)Plus a few over seas.Matterhorn mountain was also done by arrow dynamics, and is the same concept as gemini(racer).

Wicked twister....There are a bunch of these around before cedarpoint. V2(sfdk) Vertical velocity(sfga), steel venom(geauga lake),screaming condor(leofoo village).

Millennium force....There were a bunch of this type of coaster, only differance was the cable lift and height.

Iron dragon....Big bad wolf(bg), the bat(ki),xlr8(sfaw).

Corkscrew....there were a bunch. Demon(sfga) Demon(cga),chicago loop(old chicago).

Magnum....there were several of these type of coasters, magnum was just a little bit taller than the others.

Mine ride....a bunch of this type of ride was also around. A few of them at six flags parks come to mind.Dahlonega mine train(sfg),mine train(sfot),

Mean streak/ blue streak...Almost every park has a wooden coaster.

Raptor....batman coasters at six flags

Disaster transport.....Sarajevo Bobsled(sf), and Screamin' Delta Demon.(opryland).

Wildcat...too many to list.

Mantis...Iron wolf(sfga) Vortex(carowinds).

Dragster....Okay, I give cp credit on this one.

So as you can see(with the exception of dragster), cedarpoint has not installed coasters that have not been done before.

Wildebeest looks awesome. I must say...Holiday World seems to be making great business moves, and I can see that park going places in the coming years.

Now, my question would be...why couldn't they use the Wildebeest concept, and convert that to an amusement park ride rather than a water park ride. Sure it's going to be more costly, but it would have made CP a destination for people wanting to experience something new & exciting. I can almost guarantee it would have been a smash success with all audiences. Coaster lovers: check. Families: check. Thrill seekers: check. Kids: check. Adults: check.

In other words, restraint-style boats/rafts...blasted water coaster in a flume (not coaster track)...and you get very lightly wet. Can you imagine how smooth and fresh that would have felt? To me, this would have been an instant favorite with the masses at CP, and really given people something to talk about again.

Instead, we got Shoot the Rapids. As much as I love Intamin, STR is such a let-down on paper...where is the cutting-edge innovation they're known for?

Oh, and getting blasted by rapids as the climax sounds awful, sorry. I think it's pretty clear that amusement park guests don't want to get drenched. As soon as people saw the STR videos, what was one of the top complaints with people? "I hope that waterfall can be turned off / is adjustable!"

I think CP needs some new young blood in its management. Don't get me wrong...I'm still just excited to see something new being built that I can ride. But once I ride this once, I do not foresee my mentality being "That was awesome...I can't wait to get back to CP again this year to ride this!" like I did with Maverick, TTD, MF, WT, Skyhawk, Max Air, etc...

Captain Hawkeye said:
^^^^ My assumption is that the "climax" of STR is not the drop, but, rather being shot through the rapids. Besides, EVERY roller coaster has its biggest hill near the begining, relying on other elements to serve as the "climax."

Ffej said:

Pilgrim's Plunge for $4.5 million or this for $10.5 million? Before having even ridden either, I'm going to predict Holiday World's investment was the better one, especially 10-15 years into the future.

Assuming the technology works, I'd bet on Wildebeest ahead of Pilgrims' Plunge, just I'd bet on STR as being better than SRF.

Of course, with STR they could close SRF, leaving room for a dive machine. (hint, hint)

Maverick is one of the few coasters that has a lift hill and a launch in the same coaster. The layout is very innovative and I believe was the first coaster to use an LSM lift hill.

Gemini was the tallest and fastest when it opened in 1979.

Wicked Twister is the tallest and fastest Impulse coaster. Not only that but it was (and maybe still is) the only impulse coaster with two twisting spikes.

Millie. Really? If you remember this ride broke 10 world records. Tallest, Fastest, steepest drop and first to use the elevator cable lift are just a few. If you say this ride wasn't innovative, fine, but I question what you consider innovative.

Iron Dragon wasn't all that innovative I guess. However The Bat was a huge failure and ID was one of the few that opened shortly after. It was a bit of a gamble to trust Arrow that they had gotten it right.

Corkscrew... Opened in 1976. First to have 3 inversions and is one of the very few that actually interact with the midway. It's a bit of a stretch but you have to give them props for it. It still holds people's attention as they walk under it.

Magnum. Sure there were types of this ride before. But it was the tallest and fastest when it opened and gives the most airtime of any coaster I had been on until Diamondback. Plus, the pretzel turn!

CCMR.. Ok you got me there.

Mean Streak was the tallest, fastest and wildest ride on wood when it opened. And Blue Streak opened in 1964! It was innovative just for the fact it was a rollercoaster.

Raptor in 1994 was the tallest and fastest inverted coaster. It was also the first to flip riders upside down 6 times. And was the first to include the Cobra roll that we all know and love today. That is innovative.

DT... well you kind of have me there. Although there are not very many of these around.

Mantis. Yet again was the tallest and fastest of it's kind when it opened. I believe it was also the first to include either the dive loop or the slanted loop.

Thanks for the credit for TTD.

But as you can see almost every coaster at CP has had at least something new and exciting about it. It's not like they have installed copies.

The quoting is getting asinine here people.

The only thing inovative that cedarpoint has done with coasters is using a cable lift, and ttd.

They just added to what was already out there. For example....

Corkscrew. There were several corkscrews already out there, cedarpoint just added another loop. That's not innovative....that's just making the ride longer and putting in more of what is already there.

Millennium force. It's just like a hyper coaster, just bigger. Nothing innovative here. The only thing that millie brought to the table was it's height(not innovative) and a cable lift(innovative).

If you add elements that already exist, and just make it a little higher/ steeper or bigger than what the other guy has, I would not call that innovative.....just a little bigger.

I consider innovative something like a new element that has never been used before. Not just making what already exists a little bigger or longer.

Learn how to quote.

crazy horse said:
The only thing inovative that cedarpoint has done with coasters is using a cable lift, and ttd.

They just added to what was already out there. For example....

Corkscrew. There were several corkscrews already out there, cedarpoint just added another loop. That's not innovative....that's just making the ride longer and putting in more of what is already there.

Millennium force. It's just like a hyper coaster, just bigger. Nothing innovative here. The only thing that millie brought to the table was it's height(not innovative) and a cable lift(innovative).

If you add elements that already exist, and just make it a little higher/ steeper or bigger than what the other guy has, I would not call that innovative.....just a little bigger.

I consider innovative something like a new element that has never been used before. Not just making what already exists a little bigger or longer.

Then by your own definition these coasters would be innovative:

TTD
Millie
Raptor
Mantis
Wicked Twister
Maverick (twisted horseshoe roll) ;)

Also by your own definition the only wooden coaster that would have been innovative since they began to be constructed was Son of Beast.

Ryan

Definition of innovative: the act of starting something for the first time; introducing something new.

Maverick's Horseshoe Roll = innovative
Millennium Force's Cable lift = innovative
Magnum's 205 lift = innovative
Coasters that broke any type of record (including Mantis) = innovative. :)

coolkid2345 said:
Definition of innovative: the act of starting something for the first time; introducing something new.

Maverick's Horseshoe Roll = innovative
Millennium Force's Cable lift = innovative
Magnum's 205 lift = innovative
Coasters that broke any type of record (including Mantis) = innovative. :)

Ok.

Let's build a coaster that is 1 foot shorter than millennium force. It would be a differant height, so it would be innovative. Makes no sense.

The horseshoe roll is somewhat innovative one can argue. More or less it is just a cobra roll kinda, sorta reversed.

Horshoe roll...

http://rcdb.com/3570.htm?p=17293

Cobra roll.....

http://rcdb.com/502.htm?p=454

EvilChameleon09 said:
Here's a better question;

Which of the following scenery from the rendering won't be included?

A.) The water around the "flume".

I don't think that one is optional, as I think the concrete pond serves to keep the water from the "flume" from spilling over the sides and into the ground.

Plus, the flume walls after the second drop aren't continuous, which is exactly how Pilgrims Plunge is designed.

coolkid2345 said:
Definition of innovative: the act of starting something for the first time; introducing something new.

Maverick's Horseshoe Roll = innovative

How is linking 2 corkscrews together innovative?

Aw man, someone took a crap all over this perfectly good thread.

So, um, yeah...how bout that second hill being built?

^How bout that? I love the progress, everyone on site is really showing some initiative. I guess they really have to move though, seeing as we're looking at another snow storm coming in tomorrow and wednesday.

Let's get this thread back on track, shall we?

Thanks for getting us back on track Tony. I love watching the progress of new rides!I appologize for the brief hijack. Ryan

Tony, how popular was the Haystack dryer last year? Will we see another one installed this year?

Is it just me, or does it look like there is not going to be ehough clearance for the log/ boat to pass under the drop from the station?

The section I am talking about is the section from the station to the tunnel.

Jason Hammond said:
Tony, how popular was the Haystack dryer last year? Will we see another one installed this year?

It was pretty popular. We definitely have another one in the plans for Shoot the Rapids.

And crazy horse, I think it's the angle of the cam that's making it look a bit cramped. We'll try to get more pictures later this week - the impending doom of snow and wind over the next two days will likely keep us indoors.