Big Dipper to CP?

Tambo, the reason Cedar Fair didn't purchase the park in 1995, was because at that time it was an all or nothing deal (Wyandot, Darien, and Geauga Lakes).

Also, remember what kind of a company it was that bought Geauga Lake. I'm not sure that FunTime was actually 'for sale' at the time, but along came these guys from Oklahoma City with a boatload of cash, and made them an offer. That was when Premier Parks went from two parks to five. NOBODY expected them to EVER go after Six Flags!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RaceRinger said:
Unless your reading skills are at a 3rd grade level, anyone could figure out that that's what I was saying. So stop putting words in my mouth.

And if you make another comment like that I'm going to ask you to not post here anymore. The comment was not addressed to you.

To race ringer..

Do you know he put ^^ two arrows on that post..that means hes talking to the person two posts up not you...so i guess your the one with skills of a third grader.

Going back on topic... I dont see how putting Big Dipper at Cedar Point is logical..

Like its been said before, 75% of the guests arent going to know it is even big dipper unless there is a billion signs... and even still then most of them wont realize..

Also Blue Streak is already at the same park.... extremely similar

Cedar Point has been all about building new, high tech, world class rides. I would not understand the philosophy of putting that junky ride in that park... other than good PR.

I love big dipper, however I think that its better to stay where it is. If its moved to a different location, with different surroundings, and restored with new wood, etc ... does it really have the same meaning? Not to me.

But who knows what will happen....

Its funny, most guests know which one's Blue Streak, Magnum or Dragster without a "million" signs. Why would Big Dipper be any different?

The historic nature of the ride, allegedly the selling point of preserving it, is totally lost on the public anyway. I don't think enough people care or know anything about it, which doesn't exactly make it the most marketable thing.

You make a good point Jeff, I honestly do not think that the general public would know or care if Dipper was preserved. But don't you think that it would be in Cedar Fairs best interest to preserve one of the oldest coasters in the country? Particulary when they boast about the theme at Kings Island this year being one of history, tradition, and nostalgia?

A couple good commercials, news stories, and a nice landmark looking sign would go a long way to making the public think that saving the Big Dipper was this big amazing thing. You're giving the general public way too much credit. They think whatever the media tells them to think. (At least as a group)

Maverick_Millennium_Cp 4 lyfe said:
To race ringer..

Do you know he put ^^ two arrows on that post..that means hes talking to the person two posts up not you...so i guess your the one with skills of a third grader.

Because I'm not well-versed in message board lingo?

Anyway, I made that post last night after a few (or more) beers, so I apologize for being a bit abrasive.

at 10:08pm?

Yeah, we had an end-of-the-year luau at a friend's house. Turned out to be kinda lame, so I came home early.

"luau" should have been the first indication to you that it was going to be lame.

Disaster...you say you don't understand why that would put a "junky" Dipper into Cedar Point and then you go on to say you love it. Not sure I get what you are saying.

Again..."old" is not synonymous with bad any more than "new" is synonymous with good. If you ask the Disney-philes if they prefer the old Disneyland or the new California Adventure I think you are going to get an overwhelming response for the old. The best Arrow Suspended is still one of the oldest.

I doubt that they would ever do this but it is a good thought. Big Dipper was a good old fashioned wooden roller coaster and so what is Blue Streak is similar? We can have 2 antique car rides but not 2 out and back woodies? But seriously I just want the ride to operate again even if it has to leave Ohio. It will be very interesting to see what the auction brings. I heard that Cedar Fair has the right to disapprove any offers for Big Dipper.

How many of you are planning to attend the auction? I am thinking about it. If nothing else just to say goodbye. I went to GL on what turned out to be its last day. My one regret that I didn't go back to ride the dipper one last time. I knew Dominator was leaving and concentrated on that. Dominator was one of my favorite coasters ever. Talk about a coaster that could fit right in at CP.

The point isn't just historical: most of the GP will never know (or care) about the background of the rides in Planet Snoopy. CF moved them not for good will--CF isn't advertising the fact they came from GL--or for history--as far as I know none of those rides are particularly historic--but because CF owned them and thought they would add value to CP.

Which is my point with The Dipper--and other rides from GL that they cannot sell. I have no idea how many people would make one or more extra trips to CF because of The Dipper and/or The Villan and/or Raging Wolf Bobs and/or Beaver Creek Land Ride. I have no idea what the value of free publicity for moving one or all of those rides would be--but moving them would generate tons more free publicity than CF will be able to generate with Planet Snoopy.

CF owns the GL rides--it's not a cost to aquire them. It IS a cost to demolish them. Having CGI build a new coaster at Valley Fair cost $6.5m. If Jeff's quoting of 50 cents on the dollar is accurate CP could have The Dipper & Villian and have $$$ in the bank over what a new GCI would cost. They could probably have 4 of GL's coasters (Dipper, Villian, RWB, BCLR) for $2.5m more than a new GCI would cost.

What is the cost benefit ratio to relocating 1 or 2 or 4 coasters over what a new GCI woodie would cost? No idea. I have no idea how many extra people the $6.5 mil spent on Renegade brought into Valley Fair. I have no idea what the free publicity of "saving" a "historical" coaster is worth. And I have no idea what "21 Coasters, 1 Park" vs "18 Coasters, 1 Park" is worth. But then, I don't know what the the cost or the value of Planet Snoopy is and all of those rides are moving to CP.

To be honest, my bet is CF views relocating them as wasted $$$. (Although you'd think BCLR would be a good fit at one of CF's parks). But, the case is not a slam dunk. There is a defendable other position and I'll take the bleeding-heart side, simply because the $$$ of moving FOUR coasters vs building 1 new one intrigues me.

I can't prove that relocating any coasters is a sound business proposition for CF. Then, again, no one here can proove it's not. Certainly, relocated coasters like Comet, Wild One, Phoenix, etc have shown value. CF hopes to prove that the relocated rides of Planet Snoopy--not to mention X-Flight, Steel Vennom, Thunderhawk, and Dominator--have value.

If it were your call would 1 new CGI plus $2.5m be a better investment than 4 coasters and the attendant publicity in the Cleveland area such a move would generate? I gotta be honest, as much as I think it'll never happen, if it were my call, 1 family coaster, 2 enthusiast coasters and The Dipper for probably about $9m, is something I'd be looking awfully hard at.

Chief Wahoo said:
"luau" should have been the first indication to you that it was going to be lame.

Actually, it was fun for a while. Good food, good beer, horseshoes, lots of old friends stopped by, but we got started a little too early and the party died quickly. Oh, well.

Back to Big Dipper. Upon further thought, if Cedar Fair was to decide to build a wooden coaster at CP, I would probably rather have a GCI or Gravity Group coaster than Big Dipper. Yeah, the previous posters have a good point with new not always meaning "good" and vice versa. But I think GCI and Gravity Group's track records speak for themselves. I still wouldn't be upset if Big Dipper was moved to CP, I just think if they wanted to go wood, they could probably go better than that. I don't think cost is an issue for Cedar Point, either (considering how much they have been willing to spend on the last few coasters). Hopefully they find something useful for Big Dipper, it would be a shame to demolish it.

One thing is certain. Cedar Point is sorely in need of another woodie. Big Dipper would do nicely. And since the ranking opinion holds that the park isn't remotely running out of room, CP can put in Dipper and still have lots of space for a GCI down the road.

RaceRinger said:
Back to Big Dipper. Upon further thought, if Cedar Fair was to decide to build a wooden coaster at CP, I would probably rather have a GCI or Gravity Group coaster than Big Dipper. Yeah, the previous posters have a good point with new not always meaning "good" and vice versa. But I think GCI and Gravity Group's track records speak for themselves. I still wouldn't be upset if Big Dipper was moved to CP, I just think if they wanted to go wood, they could probably go better than that. I don't think cost is an issue for Cedar Point, either (considering how much they have been willing to spend on the last few coasters). Hopefully they find something useful for Big Dipper, it would be a shame to demolish it.

I think if the Big Dipper was added it would be a part of something else, like a new boardwalk area or a filler between rollercoasters like Maxair and Skyhawk were.

if CP were to bring back a ride like Big Dipper, I'd want them to make (or try to) an exact replica of the Cyclone, that was at CP years ago..

Here's what I don't get... How exactly can they properly relocate a wooden coaster without dismantling the thing completely? Why don't they just build with new wood and recycle the old somehow?

I'm not saying that relocating BD to CP is a bad idea, I'm just wondering how that would work. I never even got to get out to GL before closing.