Big Dipper to CP?

If you rode the Villian in one of its first years of operating you would have a different opinion. The ride was amazing then, and with some track work, could be amazing yet again.

Agreed. I remember on media day there were people comparing it favorably to Ghostrider at Knott's. It was instantly my favorite wood coaster, and stayed that way for a couple of years.

I agree villain was a great and smooth ride in the beginning, it only takes a couple years of missed maintenance to ruin or make a ride less desirable. I have noticed though as far as wood coasters go supporting them with steel "seems" to make them harder to maintain because they age quicker. Thats just what my observed opinion is not sure if it is true though.

The support structure has nothing to do with the track though. A wood coaster can be supported by wood, steel or mithril, if the track is poorly maintained (ala Six Flags era) it doesn't matter, the ride is going to turn to crap. Take a look at Holiday World for how to properly maintain wood coasters, regardless of the support structure.

I rode Villain for the first time in 2006 and it was terrible; my friend who had ridden it in 2000 was disappointed because it used to be a great ride. But then I heard it was retracked for 2007, so I gave it another try last year and I thought it was great. It was like an entirely different ride. I was there for the shoulder-to-shoulder Oktoberfest weekend and only had time to ride Villain *or* Big Dipper due to wait times, and opted for BD. Four days later, of course, I was pissed I hadn't ridden both that last day.

Even at its worst, Villain was a much better ride than Ghostrider. While Villain was exciting and rough, Ghostrider was only bone-jarring. It would truly be a shame for this coaster to not find a home at a loving foster park.

^^Mithril. *snicker*. Play much D&D these days, Jugga? ;)

More WoW than D&D, but that's mostly due to the "organizers", if you will, of our group having children. So they haven't had time. We've been talking about getting together again though. Its been more than a little while, need to go blow the dust off my books.

Jeff said:

If they move it to CP or anywhere else, I think it would need to be as a centerpiece to something more complete. Like the removal of Disaster Transport. :)

I may be one of the few who still enjoys Disaster Transport although I would not miss it if it were gone. Dipper along the lake seems like a great thought and it would bring back reminders of the days when The Cyclone was located in that general area.

My feeling is that Dipper needs to stay where it is to retain any historical significance. Anyone can rebuild Dipper, which is essentially what would happen if it moved, and I feel any real historical significance would be lost in moving it.

Since we are dreaming about Cedar Point creating a centerpiece along the lake Villain would be my choice to replace Disaster Transport. Many here remember Villain as a rough ride although not many remember the ride from its debut in 2000 when it was a top 20 coaster. Cedar Point really needs a great wood coaster and with Villains unique layout and some surprises Villain could be that ride.

I don't know. Historical things are moved all of the time but they don't lose their history because they are relocated. A 1926 roller coaster is still a 1926 roller coaster whether it is in Aurora or Sandusky. I think Merry-Go-Rounds are a great example of that.

On that note, I heard that the Illions carousel from GL was sold in tact. Does anyone know where it is going? In an odd bit of coincidence, one of my wife's doctors is the great grandson of Marcus Illions and I'd like to update him on what happens to that particular ride.

^^^Know what you mean. I'm still time-frozen in 2nd edition AD&D. Haven't even touched the books in seven years; squeezing out an urchin will tend to do that.

I enjoy DT also, but the building is ugly and the location blocks a beautiful view of the beach. I would be totally for removing it and restoring the beauty of the area.

If CP does want to create something along the lake that requires a centerpiece, I would wish for a new GCI wood coaster that is designed in the spirit of the old CP Cyclone. That would celebrate the history of CP and give guests a truly good coaster to ride.

Big Dipper is OK, but its not really a ride that I care if I ever ride again. It's also too close to the Blue Streak to make sense for CP, especially since Blue Streak is a much better ride in my opinion. The historical part of the ride as it relates to Geauga Lake is totally irrelevant to CP. I don't really care that it is the third oldest coaster (or whatever), yada, yada. It would still be an old, very average ride at a park that is know for premium rides. Not a very good fit if you ask me.

Norton has released the Full Color Brochure for the Geauga Lake Auction. Big Dipper does not appear to be part of the auction any more.
http://www.nortonauctioneers.com/Auctions/GeaugaLake/GeaugaLake.html

Well if it's not in the brochure, I think it's safe to assume that something is going to happen with it.

JuggaLotus said:
The support structure has nothing to do with the track though.

I'm not an engineer (I play one on TV), but I disagree. There are going to be forces acting on the structure no matter what it's made out of. The steel structure is not going to flex as much as a wood structure would, and that certainly will change the wear and tear on the track.

OldCoasterLover said:
My feeling is that Dipperneeds to stay where it is to retain any historical significance. Anyonecan rebuild Dipper, which is essentially what would happen if it moved,and I feel any real historical significance would be lost in moving it.

By that logic, it already lost its significance. It was more or less rebuilt already, though I forget the year.

What about head spin and texas twister?? They are not in the auction brochures, but did they already get re-located?

It is certainly preferable to maintain a historical structure at its original location, whether it's been restored or not. The locale of a landmark has partly to do with the historical significance of the structure. But when winds of change come blowing, and a structure can no longer be maintained on its original site, it is obviously much better to try to move the landmark and keep it around than to lose it completely. This is a time-old story from virtually every major city.

If CF moves Dipper to the Point, I will put my money where my mouth is and try to muster up additional visits from my usual 8 - 10, and I will try to spend more money on souvenirs and so forth.

I kinda wish that I had been able to ride Villain during its heyday, but unfortunately I only rode it when it was necessary to see the dentist about loose teeth afterwards.

I understand the idea of building a coaster in the spirit of the old Cyclone on the beach, but I don't think another airtime hill, airtime hill, turn around, rinse, repeat coaster would be that great. If they wanted to preserve Big Dipper by moving it to CP, that would be okay given its history, but building another version of a coaster torn down almost 60 years ago wouldn't make sense. I mean there's already Blue Streak, Gemini, and Magnum that follow the bunny-hill turn-around format, and a fourth would just get old.

I still would really, really love to see Gravity Group work its magic at CP. That way you combine air time and a twister-type layout instead of the tired old style that's been used countless times before. Plus, GG's coasters have been as highly rated as any other companies', if not higher. We might not have the terrain for one of their coasters, but I'm sure they could come up with something good.

Miss_Maverick07 said:
What about head spin and texas twister?? They are not in the auction brochures, but did they already get re-located?

I remember reading that both of them were going somewhere. According to Wikipedia, Head Spin is going to Carowinds. I'm not sure where Texas Twister is going.

I believe Dipper was rebuilt in the early 80’s, although don’t quote me on that. From what I understand most of the footers and lots of wood was replaced. But I am sure that by this rebuild not much or any of the original wood was left except in the station. Does this mean then that it has lost its historical significance? It needs to stay put plus as I agree, as do many others here, why does would Cedar Point need a coaster like Dipper? oldest wood coaster before it was moved?”

I also agree that a nice GCI or GG coaster in honor of the old cyclone would be a great addition, but Villain really is a great ride when it’s kept up. Although, it might be a job to shoehorn it in that area.

PS - Texas Twister went to California’s Great America and is opening up this season as FireFall

Are you going to be like that Munch guy and allege all kinds of impropriety and failure if Cedar Fair moves the ride instead of demolishing it? That'd be lame. There isn't a single reason the ride needs to stay there. See Phoenix or Starliner. Better to put it somewhere that it'll actually have riders.

"A wood coaster can be supported by wood, steel or mithril,"

Do i see a element from a online MMO that you are reffering to jugga?