A Sign of Things to Come? Is MS next?

Mr. RideMan, would it happen to be the Dips at Riverside Park in Indianapolis, Indiana??? thats the one i found on rcdb...

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"Im happy to be here in the great state of Chicago!"
- Dan Quayle, former US Vice President
TTD: 7

I think Mr. Altoff is referring to the Bobsleds at Seabreeze Park in Rochester. A fun little ride, in my opinion - little being the operative word. Converting MS to steel would be a, um, more difficult undertaking ...

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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill.

Spewey, that's the one I was thinking of...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Wishful Thinking! Didn't Dick Kinzel say at the Coastermania Q&A that there is NO plans to remove any coaster any time soon...??

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2003 counts:
Millennium Force Laps: 6
Magnum Laps: 7
Raptor Laps: 5
Trips to CP: 8
*** This post was edited by Vince79 9/7/2003 10:23:44 AM ***

I hope this doesn't bother people too much, but I didn't think it deserved its own topic. Anyways, last night at the park I headed over to Meanstreak and found it running empty trains when I first arrived. About 30 seconds later, the gate opened and when I was standing in the 1 train wait I noticed that the testing trains were making it into the final brakes a decent bit quicker than normal. When I got on, I found out why...the drop trims were turned off. Despite the added roughness, the first half of the ride was great with the added speed...it felt out of control. Of course that all ended when the midcourse brakes nearly stopped the train, but it was a fun ride anyways. Just as I was heading back towards the entrance to get another ride, they closed it again, presumably due to the problem with the trims. I was just wondering if anybody else got to experience it, and to make this somewhat relevent to the topic I think if they could find a way to have it consistently run that fast, I'd definitely want it to stay put.

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CP 2K3: 17
"No for real, the poopsmith is a good guy. He's just got a crappy job..." -homestar runner

Someone else mentioned this over at coasterbuzz. I wish I could have experienced it.

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America's Rockin' Roller Coast

Okay....my thoughts.....Mean Streak is such an awesome-looking ride. As someone already stated, I think it's the best looking ride in the park. Seeing the Mean Streak in Frontier Town and when driving through to the Magnum entrance is a defining moment of CP to me.

I'm so lost as to why people find this ride rough, especially the general public. I will say that if you ride in the back, you'll get a rougher ride; ride in the front, and it's smooth as can be, albeit a bit slow. Of course you're going to get the wood feeling rather than smooth steel, but I've never found Mean Streak to be uncomfortable in the slightest (except when riding in the back); I really like the ride. It's not overly thrilling, but just a pleasant, traditional ride. I will admit that Mean Streak was better in its early years.

I have definitely bonded with Mean Streak, and it would hurt to see it go; it'd feel like a part of CP was missing, much in the same way people claim Cork Screw is atmospheric. It was amazing to look at the giant, intricate structure its opening year, and wonder "How did they do this in one off-season?"

Of course, my thoughts about Mean Streak differ from many. I constantly hear about what a hurtful ride it is, especially from females. I've converted a large group when riding in the front; it's not bad at all; I don't get it. If you want to complain about a wooden coaster, find a PKI board and criticize Son of Beast. THAT is a painful wooden coaster; it jolts and jerks you violently--not the traditional bumpy wood feel. I feel sorry for PKI; they tried to build the biggest and best wooden coaster, and they were left with something unacceptable; I can see that being torn down. In contrast, I ran across some old "Best of Roller Coasters" lists from the early 90's, and Mean Streak was the #1 wooden coaster in that time frame from thousands of voters. Most wouldn't even put it in top ten lists today...classic wooden coasters like Thunderbolt are claiming those places, but I'm just pointing out that it's not a bad ride like Son of Beast or possibly Hercules (haven't ridden it) is/was.

People that are talking about tearing down Mean Streak and replacing it with steel roller coasters/rides...it's been discussed before many times...that would really go against everything that is Frontier Town.

So here's another strong opinion of mine, and maybe my perspective is skewed from people I know, but if Mantis was torn down and replaced by a B&M Flyer of Raptor quality/fame, it'd be such great news. Let me at least describe my feelings/observations before making quick judgements.

I've never been so excited about a roller coaster opening as I was about Mantis. I loved Raptor, and this ride was of course from the same designers. After waiting a couple hours, I got to the station where I could see riders' reactions. No one cheered or looked happy. Many had dull expressions, a group of guys were complaining about male problems, an older couple just looked disgusted, some people had their thumbs pointing down, I saw people fakely limping, talking of heads banging on the bars, and so on. In that instant, I knew Mantis was not going to be another Raptor-caliber ride. Even worse, I rode it and immediately crowned it the worst coaster at CP. Everyone in my family hated it, all my friends I talked to had similar feelings, and people I talked to generally disliked the ride. Further adding to my bias, on any dead day in its early years, the station was completely empty.

When there were large lines for Mantis on a summer Saturday, I always assumed people were just riding it because of the neat "Stand Up" concept, they were new riders, they needed something to ride on a crowded day, or they were just tolerating the ride because of a friend who wanted to ride. To my surprise, I've found people that really like Mantis on these boards.

Wow...I'm getting off topic without even realizing it. I'll just conclude that I hope Mean Streak or DT aren't next. Removing either of those will take away variety. A B&M Flyer would have the same audience as the B&M Mantis. Mantis is the only coaster at CP I have no feelings for and certainly wouldn't miss. Replacing that ride with a high-quality, mass-favorite coaster would increase my high opinion of CP even more. While the newer Mantis being replaced by a new coaster is unlikely, it's what I wish would happen.

While maybe off topic, my question is: Does Mantis have a larger following than my biased thoughts? Me hoping Mantis is next.....it that completely unrealistic? What could Mantis be compared to in terms of popularity/general quality? Does Mantis have a divided following of haters/lovers just like Mean Streak? I just ask this because Mantis seems like such an obvious reject to me, and I'm wondering if my perception is entirely skewed. Thanks.

I just realized how long this was after posting; sorry about this novel! I was just typing what was on my mind, and I guess I got carried away...

:) Cliff Notes: No, Mean Streak is not next. While it may be costly, it's an awesome-looking ride that is a staple of CP. From my perspective, it's MUCH more fun, less painful, and better looking than Mantis, so why couldn't that be next?

*** This post was edited by Ffej 9/8/2003 12:22:51 AM ***

The removal of MS is an interesting topic to ponder. The only valid reason would be the high cost of maintaining the monster(IMO). Yes it is a beautiful sight(especially at night) and I do ride it every time I am at The Point, but it's thrill is gone. I vividly remember riding it during its first season and really being frightened by its out of control feeling and speed. If you think it is rough, go ride Son of Beast and get back with me.

I really did enjoy the only floorless that I have been on(BKF at SFWOA). At the end of the day, it's a sit down looper, a thing that CP doesn't have other than the 'Screw. I haven't been on a B&M flyer yet, but if it's anything like X Flight(Vekoma Flying Dutchman) you can keep it.

Ffej I am a hardcore Mantis fan. I love it for the positive g's that I experience on it. Just like your sentiments about MS, I urge you to take a front car ride on Mantis. I will certainly say that it is an aggressive ride, but I think that the layout is amazing, both the first and second half. I've been on it so many times that I instinctively know how and when to position my head/upper body to eradicate headbanging. When I exit that platform I feel like I'm walking on air. The Big Purple Bug Rocks! ;)

On the other hand, when I get off of Raptor I have to hold onto the railing going down the stairs. For whatever reason Raptor and my middle ear just do not get along. I appear drunk(er! just kidding) trying to walk down the midway after a spin on the bird. I always ride it with whoever I'm with hoping maybe it will get better for me, but it doesn't. My stomach turns when I read here how someone has multiple rides on it in a single day. I know I'm all alone on this, but I'd be happy to never ride it again. To each his own......

I wonder if the Hercules fans would have ever imagined it being torn down? I would miss MS, but I'd get over it.
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Millennium Force Laps-120
**Vertigo Launches-21**
Dragster Launches-8

*** This post was edited by macho nachos 9/8/2003 1:09:50 AM ***

I was never a fan of the Mantis, I always found it to be an extremely rough ride. However, at the beginning of this summer I went to the park, and my friends who had never been there wanted to ride it, so being a good host, I went along. I was amazed at how much more comfortable the ride was. I dont know if it being cooler outside had anything to do with it, or new paint... I really have no idea. Does anyone know of a logical reason why my ride at the beginning of the season this year was much smoother than in the past?

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ONE freeway stamp a day... ONE

We were at the park on 8/27 and the trims on the first drop of MS were off. You know that jackhammering at the bottom of hill when the trims are on? Gone. You know how it seems you are barely going to make it up to the first banked turn after the drop? Not so. We flew through the first half of the course and felt airtime that I haven't felt since the darn thing opened. I thought we got lucky and just happened to hit it on a special day. Wrong. Again just this past weekend the trims were off on the first drop. Now granted the mid-course brakes were on heavy but the ride on the first half of the ride made up for that.

Now why all of a sudden they are running without the trims I don't know. Whether they are trying something new out or just going to let the thing tear (not tare) itself apart to the point where they'll just take it out, I don't care. Just as long as I get some more of the great rides without the trims. Hope they are off the Halloweekends.

I'd love to see them tear down the building sctructure on DT and return it to the Avalanche glory days. I've always loved a good bobsled ride, and in it's current condition, you really can't apprecitate the fact that you're running down a tube, rather than a track. Besides, Avalanche looked a whole heckuva better than DT!

Just my 2 cents...

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Life is too short...go ride a coaster!!

Avalanche looked better without the building, plus the setting next to the beach was always nice.

I'm not sure if the Mean Streak has gotten rougher over the years or that I have gotten older, but I just don't ride it anymore. Even with the lean slightly forward plan of attack it gives me chest pains.

Mantis is another one I don't enjoy, after standing in line for 30 minutes or more, I want to sit down!!

Agree with nacho, a floorless is really nothing but a sit down looper. We need another woodie, something like Hersheypark's Wildcat.

Macho, I can understand where you're coming from on Raptor. I feel they need to put a brake right out of the turn...the transition from the final turn to station is abusive if you don't brace yourself. And I used to get that dizzy feeling you speak of riding it, even at the start of some seasons, but it goes away after my body adapts to CP for the summer. But overall, there's nothing like a front seat ride...such a unique experience as if you're flying.

Speaking of flying, I also have never experienced a B&M Flyer, but I hear they are amazing. Hopefully they're something I will love also; to those that have ridden a B&M Flyer: Is there any type of pain or discomfort like Mantis delivers to many?

Oh, and while I haven't ridden Mantis is 2-3 years, I'm giving it one last shot on a coming Halloweekend--front seat. Though I've seemed to experience the same problems in all train locations, maybe my body has changed or something.

Poor Mean Streak...I wish there was something that could be done to make it a mass favorite. I've heard it before, but can't it be retracked with smoother technology? While it may be a large initial investment, maybe CP would save money (repairs) in the long term. And they could hype up the "new, improved Mean Streak as the 2005+ attraction" or whatever---I know I'd be very excited. Dull parts of the ride could even be re-designed/re-banked; I know the first turn was changed from its original form. Why can't an analyst visit all the favorite wooden coasters, figure out the qualities riders like, and then alter Mean Streak in that way?

I am not sure if X-Flight is a flyer, but it was the most smooth, comfortable, amazing ride experience i ever had on a roller coaster. I will admit that after the first time the thirll decreases greatly, but the restraints are extremely comfortable.

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Is there any type of pain or discomfort [on a B&M flyer] like Mantis delivers to many?

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The pretzel loop on B&M flyers provides some pretty intense positive G's at the bottom---you feel like there is a heavy weight on your chest pushing you into your 'seat'; that's right where the on-ride photo is on SFGAm's version, IIRC. Otherwise, I found the ride boring, especially compared to the Vekomas. Others complain that the Vekoma flyer seats (X-Flight) aren't comfortable, but I'm with Dawson; I liked the seats on SFA's version.

The B&M flyers are very very smooth. Then again, I don't find Mantis uncomfortable. When I ride, my head is fully above the OTSR, so I don't bang my ears at all. When you next try it, try leaning forward into the OTSR with your feet all the way back; you might find it more comfortable.

Mantis is among my favorites at the park. I guess I'm just a sucker for the underdog. Mean Streak is tolerable from the front, but with the drop brake on, it just creeps along. Hopefully they'll leave the drop brake off until my next visit in a few weeks.

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It's not war, famine, or pestilence; it's only downtime.

*** This post was edited by Brian Noble 9/8/2003 5:13:52 PM ***

Continuing the whole MS trims thing, if they're planning on turning them off for good, I think they should lighten up on the mid course brakes too, because there are really some great opportunities for air on the second half of the ride if only it had more speed. I'm not sure why they don't do this in the first place because even if it were traveling faster than it is now, it'd still be going considerably slower than the beginning of the ride, which I'm assuming contributes to most of the wear and tear.

You're not the only one who thinks Mantis is a quality ride Brian, as evident by my username. Some may dislike it for it's roughness, but I love the punch it packs, especially in the quick banking transitions. And Venessa, maybe it was smoother in the beginning of the year because the trains were freshly tuned up from the off season.

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CP 2K3: 17
"No for real, the poopsmith is a good guy. He's just got a crappy job..." -homestar runner

Well, maybe I was confusing the Vekoma Flyer with the B&M version. I'd of course want CP to get the better of the two versions. If they are anything other than amazing, I don't want CP to get one at all.

Mean Streak definitely does feel slow, especially when going through the wooden jungle, in the latter part of the ride. But when I'm riding it, I'm just thinking "This is such a neat-looking ride to be on." I think the first half is fun, and the length is a plus for me.

I am concerned about about one thing. Many people are wishing death to MS and DT. The problem is, I don't think CP would replace MS with a new wooden coaster, and I don't think DT would be replaced with a new indoor coaster. Think about it...yes, bigger does not seem better for wooden coasters at all, but how marketable is a new 125-foot wood coaster for the general public? Add in maintenance costs, and I think the removal of MS would mean only Blue Streak would remain in the future.

Oh, and Mantis....I'm going to sit in the front, feet back, lean forward. Any other suggestions? I always adjust the height until it's comfortable, and then they force me to stand on my tiptoes, and make the height higher. This of course places 5X my weight on that hurtful bicycle seat, as my feet aren't planted on the floor.

*** This post was edited by Ffej 9/8/2003 10:45:41 PM ***

I'm convinced that a side from the normal maintenance that goes on with MS in the off - season and during the operating season, that CP does not feel that they have a problem with this ride. They couldn't .. I mean it's pretty much been the same old, same old for the last 10 years since the first hill trims have been added.

I would love though, to get just one ride with no braking at all through the entire course. I'm sure it would be pretty awesome.

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I was super before Superstew was cool!

When Mr. Kinzel sees the budget line item for maintenance on Mean Streak I can assure you that he knows there is a problem. I would bet that Blue Streak hasn't had 1/2 of the money spent on it as has Mean Streak and BS is what, about 30 years older?

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"You can dream, create, design and build the most wonderful place in the world...but it requires people to make the dreams a reality."

My Opinion:

I love every coaster at Cp but Mean Streak. The ride should go, but have a new coaster ready to be built along with someother new extreme flat ride like a Gyro Swing from Intamin.