2011 Platinum Passes

djDaemon said:

Ffej said:
Cedar Fair really doesn't know how to run promotions well...

Wait... a cheap-as-dirt season pass that includes parking and access to almost a dozen parks isn't a kick ass promotion? I guess some people are never satisfied.

I knew that would be misinterpreted when I hit submit, but I was too tired to add explanation. I'm not saying in any way that the Platinum Pass is a bad value...I think it's a great value.

I'm saying Cedar Fair doesn't know how to run promotions well. Knocking off $15-20 off the regular price for a Platinum pass for the rest of the season is expected at this point & not going to have people running to renew all at once.

A good promotion would run for a more limited time and include all kinds of bonuses that appear to create alot of value but don't cost the park much of anything. I thought Cedar Point did a nice job last year with their Passholder Appreciation Day, and it made me make a special trip. However, I don't think the VIP jacket made anyone think "Man, I just got a deal!" Something like a free $10 gift card good on food, games, and merchandise (or free Skyscraper flight..I could think of many better alternatives to make me run to renew) at Cedar Point would have likely cost the park just as much, and I imagine brought alot more satisfaction / success.

At this point, if they don't do any kind of extra enticing promotion, I'll likely casually renew when I make a trip sometime in late October. So, they missed out on an extra trip from me for renewal, risked me backing out of renewing in these next 2 months, etc. That's not a good promotion. A good promotion should be exciting with urgency "I have to renew now!"

My generalization extends to just about everything Cedar Fair though. They don't know how to rope in sales that they wouldn't otherwise get without promotions such as food, hotels, etc.

We bought 6 Platinum Passes this spring, 5 adult and one junior. We are holding of simply because we aren't sure if "junior" is going to be under or over 48" next year. If he is, we'll just take advantage of the multi-pass discount again, and just take a hit on the extra $30 we would save by buying now.

As far as value, we fall into the category of mega value. We live 10 minutes from CP, and spent all but 3 Sundays there this summer. One of the Sundays we missed was a trip to KI on Father's Day, to take advantage of the free entry and free parking in the passholder lot. This is by far the best entertainment purchase as far as value we have ever made. After three trips to the park, it's just gravy beyond that. We also use them frequently on the games as well.

Ffej said:
I'm saying Cedar Fair doesn't know how to run promotions well. Knocking off $15-20 off the regular price for a Platinum pass for the rest of the season is expected at this point & not going to have people running to renew all at once.

But you're assuming that CF's reluctance to have such a promotion is indicative of their inability to run effective promotions. I'm not convinced that's the case. Why should the park spend money on a promotion for something that is already an excellent value for their guests (note that excellent value for guests invariably means worse value for the park)? You said it yourself - the pass, as-is, is a great value. That great value, in itself, is the promotion. So, they should add on some more bells & whistles for a few enthusiasts who are never happy?

A good promotion would run for a more limited time and include all kinds of bonuses that appear to create alot of value but don't cost the park much of anything.

As I noted above, increased value for the customer invariably means a decreased ROI for the park. There's no getting around that.

At this point, if they don't do any kind of extra enticing promotion, I'll likely casually renew when I make a trip sometime in late October.

So, the park isn't losing out on anything as a result of not running a special promotion for you. Seems like a smart business decision to me.

So, they missed out on an extra trip from me for renewal...

Because I'd guess that you spend less per visit than the average guest, the park again has not lost out on anything as a result of not running a special promotion for you. Seems like a smart business decision to me.

...risked me backing out of renewing in these next 2 months, etc.

But the park makes more money on the pass if you don't renew in these next 2 months. So, the park isn't losing out on anything as a result of not running a special promotion for you. Seems like a smart business decision to me.

We go 8-10 times a year, not including the occasional trip to G. Lake and Kings Island (we're in Louisville, OH to give you distance perspective).

We also never buy food in the park.

It's a pretty sweet deal anyway you cut it for us.

The fact is, if you like the park and go often, the Platinum Pass is way under-priced (which is great).

I visited twice this year, once with a ticket from Meijer's another with a free ticket from a friend. I don't get the value from CP that I get from other amusement activities, or I could even buy a pair of shoes and get more enjoyment out of those than what CP has provided me lately.

Thanks for your analysis Einstein. You don't go often, nor do you like the park. Yeah, I think a blind armadillo could tell you that the P. Pass is not for you.

I've been to the park on six individual day trips, plus one two night trip at Breakers this season. I did the math and if I would have bought six regular price tickets, plus two resort-priced tickets, plus parking on those six trips would have cost me just under $400. Plus I've used my Platinum discount countless times in Challenge Park, Coaster's Diner, games, etc. The $160 that I spent was a great value. I didn't buy my discounted pass at the end of last season because I wasn't sure yet how this year would be so I held off. I will definitely be renewing my pass whenever I'm at the park before the end of the season this year.

Heck, you can even renew your Platinum right on the website if you so desire. Don't even have to take a trip to the park to do it. You just re-use your pass from this year.

Chase Gilbert said:
Heck, you can even renew your Platinum right on the website if you so desire. Don't even have to take a trip to the park to do it. You just re-use your pass from this year.

I did that a few years ago, and had a ton of problems.

I had bought a platinum pass at cedarpoint, and renew it at kings island at the end of the year. The next spring, I used it without a problem at kings island, but had all kinds of issues at cedarpoint.

The first problem was at the toll booth. I got the red x of death on the computer screen when they scanned it. They wanted me to pay the parking fee. I refused because I had just paid $160 for a pass, and it was not my fault that there system was having problems. After 5 min of arguing with the guy, they just waved me thrue and told me to go to the season pass office to get it fixed.

After waiting in line for 30 min at the season pass office, they told me that there was no problem with the pass, and that I should be able to use it.

I then made my way to the gate, only to get the red x again. The person at the gate pointed me to guest services. After making my way to guest services and waiting in line for another 20 min behind a bunch of other people that were having the same problem, they told me that we had to bring our passes to guest services for every visit to the park. I asked the manager if they changed it, because last year I had a kings island pass and never had any issues using it at the main gate.

He told me that it has always been that way(lie), and that I had to go guest services every time to show my pass and get a comp ticket. The same thing you have to do at Michigans adventure.

After finnaly being let into the park and missing all the morning ert at this point, I called kings island to see if they were having issues with the pass. The answer was no. Everything checked out on there end, and they told me that it must be an issue with cedarpoints system.

Came back to cedarpoint 2 weeks later, and had the same problems with the pass at the toll booth, but not the main gate. So I went back to the season pass office, and they told me that I had to exchange my kings island pass, for a cedarpoint pass in order for my pass to work at the park.:(

Needless to say, I am not too impressed with the renew policy they have. I remember when they had the normal cedarpoint passes and maxx pass, I could renew it by just sending them a payment and by paying at the season pass office at the end of the season. You never had to wait in line to get your picture taken every year, and there were no problems with the passes.

Just giving you a heads up. I was not the only person having problems with the pass.

Wasn't that specific problem a result of purchasing the pass at one park, and then processing it at another? Not that the problems are excusable, but I thought that may have been the cause of the problem.

I am not sure where the problem was rooted , but it left a bad taste in my mouth about doing the "renew" option ever again.

djDaemon said:

As I noted above, increased value for the customer invariably means a decreased ROI for the park. There's no getting around that.

I'm not going to bother responding to your individual comments, as this quote completely summarizes why we're not on the same page.

You can certainly increase your profitability by increasing value for the customer. This is the whole point of promotions? You're getting sales at reduced profits (but still profit) that you wouldn't otherwise get.

Sure I'm going to renew my pass anyway, but let's say a free Skyscraper flight lured 500 extra people to the park to buy a season pass that they wouldn't have otherwise received. Of these 500 people, let's say 250 of them had never ridden Skyscaper, they loved it, and they will be buying future Skyscraper flights. It's a promotional success on 2 levels there. Then, let's say they had never had a season pass before, they realized the great value in it, and they'll be buying future ones. They also spread good word about the season pass, the Skyscraper ride, etc. Good promotions can bring many layers of success and increased profitability.

If I was in charge of making the season pass promotions for the park, I'd take a long look at areas in the park that were struggling and pay attention to the season passholder trends in particular. I'd then probably come up with something like "Buy our 2011 Platinum Pass by the end of September, save $20 (Our best price of the season!), and receive $80 in exclusive coupons good for the remainder of the season such as.... A savings of $100!"

Then, the $80 in coupons would target all the problem areas.

Sample Issue 1: Passholders aren't buying food in the park. Solution Coupon: Buy 1 Potato Works Fry, get 1 FREE, Get 50% off any 1 lunch buffet at Midway Market, etc.

Sample Issue 2: Challenge Park attractions going unnoticed by season passholders. Solution Coupon: One FREE Skyscraper flight, One FREE 18-hole game of Challenge Park Golf, etc.

Sample Issue 3: People aren't staying in our resorts. Solution Coupon: Save 50% on your stay at Sandcastle Suites / Breakers on (Days with many historical vacancies).

Sample Issue 4: Admission is free for passholders and they're typically coming with other free passholders. Solution coupon: $20 Admission for 1 friend on XXX (low attendance dates).

Sample Issue 5: Customers aren't playing games as much as they did in the past. Solution coupon: Free game (choose the type games people feel close to winning but they'll lose, buying more tries)

Keep in mind these are made up issues and may not be actual issues whatsoever. They're just examples of how promotions spur sales and increase profitability while providing the customer with more value.

The Cedar Fair Parks really seem to be lacking with promotions that get me excited and draw me in to try new things. As a passholder, I'm spending very little in the park, and that's not right. They need to come up with ways to fix that. The promotional offers like I listed above would have me trying everything, it'd be money I wouldn't have otherwise spent, and I'm sure I'd find things I liked that I'd start regularly buying on future trips.

Ffej said:
As a passholder, I'm spending very little in the park, and that's not right. They need to come up with ways to fix that. The promotional offers like I listed above would have me trying everything, it'd be money I wouldn't have otherwise spent, and I'm sure I'd find things I liked that I'd start regularly buying on future trips.

Yeah, I'm sure you, Mr. A Spectacularly-Inexpensive Season Pass with Included Discounts Isn't Enough of a Good Deal For Me, are always looking for things to spend more money on.

It's been noted by CF that, as you indicate above, pass holders spend less in the park than regular admission guests.

The decrease in the average in-park guest per capita spending is a result of increased season pass sales and a shift in the attendance mix toward season pass visits, typically a lower per capita guest...

So while your various anecdotes above are all super, they're non-starters from a business perspective. If the season pass guest already pays far less for park admission (on a per-visit basis) than a regular-admission guest, and spends less than inside the park than the regular-admission guest, what sense does it make for the park to further reduce their margins for pass holders, or to even further promote season pass sales beyond their inherent value? As the professor noted over on CB... sure, we lose money on every guest, but we make it up in volume! Brilliant strategy.

Furthermore, many of the "sample issues" you mention above already exist - ERT nights, BOGO Challenge Park, BOGO midway games, 10% off resort visits, VIP show seating, discounts for various food items, discounts on fishing charters and even discounts on Castaway Bay tickets. On top of the fact that the pass is already an excellent value, these incentives aren't enough? Seriously?

I don't think Cedar Point views the Platinum Passholders as the most profitable customers.

What do you think they would rather have?

the guy who's effectively spending $10 per visit, knows to bring a cooler with sandwich stuff, bitches about the poor quality of shows and high prices for food and beverages, and knows if he's spending the weekend NOT to spend it on point.

or the guy who got $5 off his $46 ticket buying three products of Red Gold at Meijer, paid another $10 for parking, sprung for a turkey leg, fries, and a $6 pop, and booked a hotel on point because he didn't realize he could stay for $40 at Roadway Inn?

They do a lot for us, as DJ mentioned, and to be honest, I'm really thankful.

Here are what the other park chains are giving you with your season pass.

Busch...

http://www.buschgardens.com/bgw/PassBenefits.aspx

Universal.....

http://www.universalorlando.com/Tickets/Annual_Passholders/Preferred_Pass/preferred_discounts_popup.aspx?ComponentId=9643&SourcePageId=9242#1

Six flags......

http://www.sixflags.com/greatadventure/tickets/seasonpass.aspx

Parc..........

http://www.ridedarienlake.com/seasonpass.aspx

And...

http://www.ridedarienlake.com/#

Disney....

http://allears.net/pl/apass.htm

Dollywood...

http://www.dollywood.com/dollywood-q10131-c10019-Season_Pass_Benefits.aspx

Holiday world...

http://www.holidayworld.com/visit/ticket-prices-discounts#seasonpass

Moreys pier.....

http://store.moreyspiers.com/seasonpassmsg.aspx

Hershey park....

http://www.hersheypark.com/tickets/season_passes.php

Kennywood.....

http://www.kennywood.com/seasonpass/seasonpass.html

Legoland(about 3/4 down the page)........

http://www.family-vacation-getaways-at-los-angeles-theme-parks.com/Legoland-Discount-Tickets.html

Detroit zoo....

http://www.detroitzoo.org/Support_the_Zoo/Membership/Membership/

And since this is a CP-centric site, about 90% of those aren't really relevant to the value of a CP pass, in my opinion. That's sort of like saying hey, I see you're looking at buying a new car (in the US). For comparison's sake, you should check out Peugeot! ;)

I posted them to show what other park chains are giving season pass holders as discounts and bennifits.

What park/ chain is giving the deals is irrelevant.

No, I think the location of the deal is relevant, simply because the distance between two parks is cost-prohibitive for most people. Sure, the Disney pass might be a better value relative to their standard gate price, but not everyone can afford to drive 1,000 miles every few weeks.

Beyond that, a park located in an area with less population density will presumably have to do more to lure guests to their park than a comparable park surrounded by 10 times the number of potential guests.

For example, Peugeot may be offering 75% off all their vehicles, but that deal isn't going to help someone in Flint, MI who wants a family sedan.

Ok...

Bush and seaworld, all the six flags parks on the east coast.

Those parks are close together.

All the smaller indipendant parks have a bunch of discounts and bennifits as well. For the most part, the price of the season pass is much cheaper also because it's just the one park.

On a lot of that I just see "10% off", "$10 off", etc... sure the bring a buddy stuff is cool, but I think Cedar Point ran that promo this year too. I think it was bring a buddy for $19 if you were a PP holder.

Plus, I'll take my early entry EVERY single day over 10% off some chicken wings between 4 and 6 p.m.

I really don't use the eary entry thing too often. I like to sleep in, so that perk is not much help for me. :)

To me, the morning ERT is far and away the best perk of the pass. In fact, on most visits, we get probably 50+% of our riding for the day done in that first hour (unless the park is particularly un-busy).

Of course, it probably helps that the Wife & I are up at 4:00-4:30 five days a week, so we can still "sleep in" and make it in time for ERT. :)