Will TTD operations be impacted by Knott's incident?

Very sad accident. No question about it. I hope the boy and his father are O.K.

A few years ago for a term paper, I did a research project on ride safety. It was a pretty eye-opening experience in terms of how safe rides really are, and it was cool to be able to interview some people in the industry.

Essentially I was able to conclude from my research that rides are safe. It's no different than flying on commercial airliners. Do horrible, horrible accidents happen once in a while? Yes, unfortunately they do. Does that mean stepping onto a plane is unsafe? Absolutely not. Millions and of passengers fly on U.S. airlines every year. Heck, hundreds of millions of people fly a single legacy airline every year. And of those millions, there are maybe one or two hundred injuries every year. Point being that is an extremely small percentage. So I think keeping perspective is extremely important in these circumstances. I got rather peeved when I logged onto a certain theme park rumors site, and saw a rant about how Intamin rides are unsafe because of "all the accidents" and how parks should stop building them. Of the hundreds of millions of people that have been on these rides, 5 or so injuries, while certainly tragic, is an extremely small percentage of the total.

And I have to say I was somewhat irked by the video leak. No park wants accidents to happen. Period. It's not good business for these kinds of things to happen. So I find it a bit disturbing that whatever employee it was that leaked this video was more concerned with sticking it to the man (the park) by putting the video on YouTube rather than being genuinely concerned for the guest who was injured...

I also have been launched from a dead stop on Maverick. Indeed it was intense, but the acceleration seems to be more constant with the LSM system. Top Thrill Dragster's launch is by far the most intense launch I have ever experienced.

^^ Couldn't have said it better myself!! I hope the man and his son are ok but this will not mean that i will by any means stop riding Intamin coasters.

I agree with you Chris. I will still experience any ride operated by Cedar Fair. Knott's Berry Farm will most likely have to give up some money for this incident, but I really do not believe that the risk of losing money is the main concern of the maintenance department. The people that work this field are more concerned about people having a great experience. I would hope they do their job in a fashion that they would not be worried to let their family ride the attractions that they inspect and keep in great working order.

Accidents do happen. In ALL aspects of life. I feel for those that have been injured on amusement rides, but in relativity the amusement parks around the world are incredibly safe.

TTD 120 said:

Cougarfan, what the navy is doing is a bit more advanced than what coaster companies are meddling with

Ron Toomer was a NASA engineer. Do you think that engineers are incapable of launching a vehicle to a specified speed if they are not in the Navy? The military has great engineers and awesome creations, but the engineering of roller coasters does not take a back seat to it. The physics and calculus are all the same.

TTD 120: if you could go back in time ASK Sir Isaac Newton

Sorry I did not want to edit.

Hydraulic applications are centuries old. Its an incredibly strong way to move objects. In the early days leather was used to seal the systems. It was not greatly effective, but it did work. Rubber revolutionized hydraulic application.

TTD 120 please do not talk out of your *BEEP*

Top Thrill 182 said:
I got rather peeved when I logged onto a certain theme park rumors site, and saw a rant about how Intamin rides are unsafe because of "all the accidents" and how parks should stop building them. Of the hundreds of millions of people that have been on these rides, 5 or so injuries, while certainly tragic, is an extremely small percentage of the total.

I agree with everything you said about how small the percentage is of people who actually get hurt on amusement park rides. However, you didn't address why many of the accidents that do happen seem (and this is just a perception, I have no solid numbers) to come from Intamin rides. If these incidents truly fall into the "it just happens" category, wouldn't you expect to see it happen somewhat evenly across the other various ride manufacturers? Just some food for thought.

Top Thrill 182 said:

And I have to say I was somewhat irked by the video leak. No park wants accidents to happen. Period. It's not good business for these kinds of things to happen. So I find it a bit disturbing that whatever employee it was that leaked this video was more concerned with sticking it to the man (the park) by putting the video on YouTube rather than being genuinely concerned for the guest who was injured...

Wait, so you're familiar with the employee's motives? Do you know this to be fact, or are you just assuming? And why do you care? Do you work for Cedar Fair?

As far as I'm concerned, its good when video of events like this get out. A little knowledge never hurt anyone.

CougarFan said:

Ron Toomer was a NASA engineer. Do you think that engineers are incapable of launching a vehicle to a specified speed if they are not in the Navy?

Yeah, because US National Defense budgets are in the same league as Cedar Fair & Six Flags' capital expenditures budgets. Or something like that.

CougarFan said:

TTD 120 please do not talk out of your *BEEP*

Wow. You've been here almost 3 whole weeks...

CougarFan said:

The military has great engineers

CougarFan said:

TTD 120 please do not talk out of your *BEEP*

Sorry, I couldn't help but note the irony.

NASA is the only area of government receiving military funding that has anything approaching competent engineers. There's a reason civilians do most of the engineering work for the military.

Ralph Wiggum said:
However, you didn't address why many of the accidents that do happen seem (and this is just a perception, I have no solid numbers) to come from Intamin rides. If these incidents truly fall into the "it just happens" category, wouldn't you expect to see it happen somewhat evenly across the other various ride manufacturers? Just some food for thought.

If you look back at incidents through the years, I think Intamin, Morgan and Arrow rides all have their fair share of incidents. I think people knock Intamin because of the incidents of riders falling out of the T-bar lapbars, which were pretty high profile events. I'm not sure I would be so quick to blame Intamin on that, seems like much of the problem were the ride operators.

The only manufacturer that seems to be immune to the various incidents is B&M. Not sure why that is, maybe very conservative engineering or just plain luck? But, while B&M rides are fun rides, no one innovates like Intamin. While all the innovation may make some of the rides less reliable from a maintenance point of view until the bugs are worked out, I think Intamin rides are just as safe as anything else out there. Plus the company is very creative and always seems to have something new and fresh to sell.

Pete said:
The only manufacturer that seems to be immune to the various incidents is B&M.

Unless you count low zone incidents. But that's more the fault of Darwin than it is B&M.

I also would not go so far as to call this accident sad or tragic. Scary? Yes. Tragic? Tragic is what happened to the girl in Kentucky on the drop ride.

The "risk" factor (and the fear factor) is part of the excitement of riding a roller coaster.

I remember being a kid watching the new Corkscrew, convinced that people actually could fall out...but that was part of the fun. Then, as an adult, I remember seeing the minimal restraints on Top Thrill before boarding my first train and thinkin...."that's all that will hold me in?". Or riding Nitro for the first time with no seat belt...just a locking lap bar...scary!

But that's sort of the point on a high-thrill ride.

If the cable launch is good enough to launch 60 million dollar jets off the deck of a boat, as well as catch them, then it is good enough to launch a trains on a rollercoaster.

Cables break, enormous amount of stress, etc. There is no way of saying the cable is going to break on the next launch, replace it. Every train being launched has a chance of the cable breaking. Small defects in cable production can contribute, but you just use a thicker cable so you have some headroom. Stress on the cables can be detected, but you need to have a point which you replace that is cost effective. Steel stretches and eventually snaps.

Kevinj said:

The "risk" factor (and the fear factor) is part of the excitement of riding a roller coaster.

I remember being a kid watching the new Corkscrew, convinced that people actually could fall out...but that was part of the fun. Then, as an adult, I remember seeing the minimal restraints on Top Thrill before boarding my first train and thinkin...."that's all that will hold me in?". Or riding Nitro for the first time with no seat belt...just a locking lap bar...scary!

But that's sort of the point on a high-thrill ride.

I completely disagree. If there were real, significant risks involved in riding roller coasters, not only would I not ride them myself, I would certainly never dream of putting my seven year old on them. Yes, there is supposed to be illusion of risk -- I chuckle whenever I ride Gemini and watch inexperienced riders cringe and duck under the headchoppers -- but not real danger to life or limb. Or at least such risk is supposed to be engineered out of virtual existence.

The actual threat of dying or dismemberment is not why I ride rides.

Kevinj said:
I also would not go so far as to call this accident sad or tragic. Scary? Yes. Tragic? Tragic is what happened to the girl in Kentucky on the drop ride.

Then yes, tragic, because the same thing nearly happened here:

http://www.redding.com/news/2009/sep/22/weaverville-boy-injured-in-knotts-berry-farm/

Soon after the ride started its uphill climb, a cable snapped, slicing through the front of the faux car, Morgan said.

The wire also sliced through Kyle's left calf, Morgan said.

"He's going to be out of it for a while," Morgan said of the boy's injuries.

^^ I agree....I wasn't implying real risk, but rather the illusion of it that we build up in our minds for whatever reason.

^ So then it was nearly tragic, not tragic.

Nice. Coming from an injury lawyer, makes me wonder how much of "slice" the cable did to his leg, rather than him getting hit with a shard of cable.

We all have our own threshold for what is acceptable and unacceptable.

I didn't think much of the 2004 TTD incident. I think people who stand up or try to escape their restraints get what they deserve in most cases. And that goes for people who enter restricted areas of roller coasters and get their heads kicked off.

But this one is different for me. The damage to the seat, the infiltration of the vehicle, and that it seems to be just the most recent in a trend of steel cable launch failures. And it appears it could have been much much worse.

I remember looking at that picture of Millenium Force earlier this year and thinking "what if that thing didn't stay attached to the cable?" It seems like it may have been possible for the MF catch car to strike somebody on the nearby road. But at least it seemed like the riders were 100% safe in that situation and never in danger.

We all enjoy coasters and I feell pretty safe on them, but like everything it can fail no matter how much you check things! I am glad that most of the time the people are ok, but I do feel horrable for the ones who get hurt or worse. I just keep my ears and eyes open and if I feel a ride is no right, I stay away from it.