Will TTD operations be impacted by Knott's incident?

There is some stunning on-ride video of a cable snap on Xcelerator at Knott's Berry Farm. This ride was constructed prior to TTD, but operates pretty similar to TTD.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local-beat/Knotts-Berry-Farm-Rollercoaster-Accident-Injures-Guests-59751017.html

After watching the video, I can't imagine that TTD and Kingda Ka operations would continue until the problem is addressed. I know TTD's cable snap was investigated and addressed, but I don't recall there being such a damning video like this. Check out how the seat actually gets dislodged as the train rolls back over parts of the cable / catch-car.

Machines fail and riders ride at their own risk. According to Ohio law anyone who rides such an attraction rides at their own risk as long as the operator of the ride puts forth a notice which CP does twice. Once with the sign at the entrance and again with the pre-ride speil.

I am sure that CF told its maintance crews to "double check" everything so we dont have two accidents in one week, but I dont believe that they are "scared" because a video made it onto youtube.

Cedar Point and Cedar Fair has one of the best track records out there when it comes to safety. As far as I know no one has died at any Cedar Fair park under its control due to a ride malfunction (previous medical problems excluded). That is something that the house of the mouse cant say!

I totally agree, but I am also shocked that these rockets seem to fail rather ungracefully. It seems like there should have been more thought put into how this ride will fail and how damage could be better mitigated.

Unfortunately, steel cables heat up and stretch and store enormous amounts of energy that can be unleashed in an instant during a failure. It seemed like a scenario that could be averted with regular maintenance, rotation of parts, and that cooling system (?)... but now it is starting to look like it could be a dangerous propulsion method for rides.

Maybe all that watering on TTD is enough to keep something from happening, though. I don't know if they do that at Knott's.

I'll still ride :) maybe not in the front row anymore, though...

This happened on TTD some years ago, but my question is if this happened to TTD how would the train come back to the launch position or would it just stay wherever the ride comes to a stop and what happened at the end of the video? Could employees be able to get to the people if something really bad happened, if it does just stop where it stops? I know that in a roll back it slowly comes back to the launch position, but what about something like this?

parts of the cable were sheered off the coaster's cable thats what happened on TTD

I think the status of Dragster this weekend will speak volumes about what happened at Knott's.

If Dragster runs this weekend, then I would say the cause of the Knott's incident is well known, and Dragster has been checked to insure that it will not suffer the same failure.

If Dragster does not run this weekend, then I submit that the problem at Knott's might be something novel.

I would compare this to the incident some years ago when the brakes failed on Superman:ROS at Six Flags New England, causing a collision. That ride suffered a failure that was so obvious that not only did the rides at Darien Lake and Adventure World continue to operate, they continued to operate with two trains. On the other hand, when they had some kind of unusual failure on the Chiller, Six Flags shut down all of their Premier launched coasters until they figured out what went wrong.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

This happened in 2004 on Dragster. Another piece of crap Intamin :)

Just got back from the park and TTD was up and running great all night got 5 laps in.

I agree that if they understand what the problem is at Knotts and its not something that is likely to happen to Dragster or Kingda Ka (whether because of the nature of what happened at Knotts or design differences between the rides) then Dragster and Kingdaa Ka will continue to operate as normal. Guess we will see if Dragster runs this weekend.

I am more concerned about the kids seat jolting into the restraint at the end. What was that and why did it happen?

David Sagert said:
Machines fail and riders ride at their own risk. According to Ohio law anyone who rides such an attraction rides at their own risk as long as the operator of the ride puts forth a notice which CP does twice. Once with the sign at the entrance and again with the pre-ride speil.

That's a ridiculous assertion. No one gets on a ride with any expectation that they may get hurt. Furthermore, the law does not release the parks from any liability whatsoever.

^ I would have to say that is due to the debris that was on the the track similar to Kingda Kas accident. Something else broke loose due to the train going over the initial debris and causing some other kind of destuction.

Having seen the photos from Kingda Ka I would say this kid got off easy compared to what happenend to Kingda Kas trains. The brakes ripped right through the bottom off the train! that would cut your feet clean off!

Kingda Ka also had a movable cover over the cable that was supposed to prevent this kind of accident and from what I recall this played a part into the accident that shut it down for some time.

Jeff, How many times have we discussed the Ohio law on this site?

How many lawsuits were claimed and won in any suits against Cedar Point and won? The almost same accident happened in 2004 at Cedar Point and nothing came of it asside of season passes awarded to the victimes as far as I am aware of. If I am wrong please give me a article to refference so I can correct my statement.

As far as that goes, Cedar Fair (Son of Beast for specifics) has never been sued and lost due to a ride malfunction in recent history. I stated in my post the all pre exisiting conditions were excluded, this includes most of the accidents on SOB.

If I missed something somewhere down the line please let me know. I am not trying to bash you in any way. I am just curious if I just missed something in judicial precedent.

If you check YouTube, the video in question dosent even pop up on the first or second page of any of the available searches that they (youtube) provide.

I honestly dont think anything will come of this in the near or forseeable future.

Jared16 said:
This happened on TTD some years ago, but my question is if this happened to TTD how would the train come back to the launch position or would it just stay wherever the ride comes to a stop and what happened at the end of the video? Could employees be able to get to the people if something really bad happened, if it does just stop where it stops? I know that in a roll back it slowly comes back to the launch position, but what about something like this?

Well first off, the train will always leave the catchcar, no matter what happens. Basically at a certain point, the catch car stops, the chain dog that engages the catch car gets retracted into the train via an electromagnet and the train continues on its course. This system ensures that the train does not slam into the catch car (as it's making its way back) in the event of a rollback. The only difference between this incident, Dragster's years back and Kingda Ka's was that Ka's incident was that the brakes slowed the train AS it was launching bringing it to a dead stop at the base of the incline.

Now as for the seat. In the video, the seat seems to show a sign of movement as they pass through the cable fragments and that hard jolt. And the fact that the kids legs were the only thing that seem to trouble either of them (and be injured) is perplexing. Considering his height and how high the fiberglass frame on the front car is, my only guess is that a piece of fiberglass was shattered and struck the boys leg. My reasoning is that as they rollback, you see pieces of something leave the car. That may or may not have been small pieces of fiberglass. I could be wrong of course. I also think that the seatback somehow came lose during the cable fray jolt and dislodged when the train came to an unusual sudden stop on the launch track.

And I'll say that unless this is something more detrimental to the ride components/ design, then Dragster, Ka, Storm Runner and all other launch coaster will continue to operate. Of course like others have said, I'm sure CP took this incident in and took the time to double check the most important parts of the ride just to make sure.

Oh and go suck it Ben.:)

David Sagert said:
How many lawsuits were claimed and won in any suits against Cedar Point and won? If I am wrong please give me a article to refference so I can correct my statement.

Working for a major credit card company I can safely tell you there are several lawsuits against the company every single year - either by an employee or a cardmember. Settlements are made BEFORE any cases can go to court because the company doesn't want anything derogatory reported to the public. The plantiff and all parties involved then agree to keep the settlement confidential.
I would be willing to bet the same holds true for CF and this is why there are no articles to reference-but if Im wrong I am sure someone will lmk!

Jo
Lifetime Raptor flights: 2116 :)

Remember that the lawsuit is the remedy of LAST resort. There are other means of dispute resolution that are far more suitable in most cases. The beef only goes to court if it is not possible to reach an agreement through any other means.

Remember also that just because something breaks does not necessarily indicate that the operator is negligent...which is usually the standard required for punitive damage.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

It varies somewhat, but the typical threshold for punitive damages in Ohio is gross negligence, reckless, wanton or willful conduct. If an employee of the park drops below the standard of care and someone is injured, that person is negligent (and so is the park, if the employee was acting within the scope of his/her employment), and the injured party will be able to collect meds + pain and suffering, but recovery of punitive damages typically require a lot more than that.

Obviously when the injury might also involve a manufacturing or design defect, things get hairier as far as identifying the responsible party.

But whoever said that the sign and spoken warning constitute a liability waiver is wrong. Neither of those will protect the park against the negligence of an employee or some kind of physical defect. What those warnings do establish is comparative fault, like if someone with a heart condition has an on-ride heart attack, or because someone is injured because they deliberately wiggled out of the restraints. Since most ride injuries occur because of something the rider was doing, those warnings are pretty effective in cutting off a good amount of litigation.

The park is still under the same duty as any other private property that allows the public to enter. I just looked on the back of my pass, and while the user does give up rights to his likeness, and allows for revocation if park rules and policies are not followed, it says nothing about waiving any liability.

Am I missing something? I don't see a seat getting dislodged on the rollback or on the launch for that matter.

Neither do I, but I can see why people are convinced that it is so, as there is significant movement in the camera, and some really wild stuff going on with the video compression. Have a look at http://capital2.capital.edu/admin-staff/dalthoff/xcelerator for frames 435-440 of the video, which is where the seat appears to do something strange.

Partly I am not seeing it because I know that the whole seat is a single unit, and I am not seeing any motion in the front of the seat (the armrest). I suppose it is possible for the headrest or the seat cushion to be loose, but I am not convinced of it by looking at the video. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, it just means that's not what I think I am seeing.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.