Why Cedar Fair Might Be Struggling This Year

Not only does Disney World have $500/night rooms (without tickets) but also rooms that are more expensive (again without tickets). From what I understand they get plenty of people willing to stay in them. Though not everyone is can/is willing to pay that much which is a big part of why they have other resort options. And there are non-Disney options in the area as well. To each his/her own.

Not sure a luxury hotel is what Cedar Point needs. Its not necessarily a case of build it and they will come. One issue is that the park is closed about 7 months of every year so your return on the investment by the park will be reduced compared to a year round resort. But CP has a lot more info than I do; maybe one day there will be one there and it will do well.

I could see a new, higher end hotel at near occupancy during peak season (summer weekends, and July/ Early august) as there seems a huge demand for rooms. Breakers and LHP are pretty much always booked then, even the most expensive room categories.

Issue is that’s only around half of your operating season you can guarantee near occupancy, and you only operate 1/3rd of the year to begin with. Breakers and LHP seem to operate with ½- to ¾ occupancy during the soft season. Never difficult to get a room and have even found rooms for half off the rack rate on 3rd party sites during the soft season.

Question is would a new hotel increase demand during that time, or do they risk cannibalizing what little demand there is across all the properties? Decent performance during this soft season might be the difference between good profits on the year or just coming out even with the peak season profits. I doubt people are going to want to spend $400-500 a night during May/ October, so it might be tough to turn a profit on a new high end hotel on the 60 peak days alone.

I’d prefer a new hotel, but might be less risk and much less operating cost for them to put down more cabins.

There is also a major tax advantage to the cabins, as the park accounts the cabins as equipment which is why the utilize the ‘mobile’ models. Hotels are hard assets and taxed as real property.

That really depends on how the tax authority classifies the cabins/cottages. I have seen many examples in Ohio that if the units like the cabins/cottages have the wheel assemblies removed, they are considered a permanent building and would be taxed as such. If the wheels remain on the cabin/cottage, they would be considered mobile. Even if the wheel assemblies are there and they are covered by the skirting, that may be considered a permanent building.

mgou58 said:

Guests want an experience when they go to any kind of amusement park, and I think that’s where Cedar Fair falls very short. There’s nothing to tie it all together. Even with the beach and Breakers, it’s still a very disconnected experience at Cedar Point that doesn’t feel like an all inclusive resort.

Just spent 2 days at Cedar Point. Major rides (*cough*MF*cough*) being down consistently, ridiculously hot & humid weather, and lots of closed food & retail locations aside, we had a lot of fun. We stayed off property at another campground. Let me break down the above issues...
-Breakdowns happen. I get it. But we drove by MF several times either on Perimeter Rd or CPLE and always saw several mechanics around the lift mechanism, but never saw one actually turning a wrench or even touching the lift motor. No idea what’s wrong with her but MF has not had a stellar year. If it can’t be fixed, move on to something else to keep the stuff that CAN be fixed, open.
-Obviously CP doesn’t control the weather. It’s late August, it’s hot. But quit removing trees! Shade is getting quite rare other than Frontier Trail. I remember my first visit in 2001 remarking how awesome the shade structures and misting fans over the queues were. They are pretty far and few between nowadays (Maverick and Steel Vengeance come to mind, anywhere else?). Cheap & easy improvements.
- Closed food & retail locations, and resort issues as well, the simplest solution is also the one that will likely not happen. Cedar Fair needs to get off their wallet and pay a competitive wage. $15/hr? That’s a bit much. But when Taco Bell, BK, WalMart, etc are all paying more per hour where’s the incentive to work at CP? Don’t want to pay OT? Being back the year end bonus. Or maybe at least a sliding scale if you work over 45 hours per week, get an extra dollar for ALL hours worked. This is gonna be their biggest issue going forward. Want to open the resorts Sunday nights during HalloWeekends? I bet a shift differential of sorts will make that 2 hour drive a whole lot less of an issue. Gotta at least be competitive.

Calling it now. Halloweekends is going to be another massive train wreck this year. Unbelievable to hear issues they were having opening month are still persisting at the end of the regular season. Cutting corners in an attempt to cut costs to make up for being unable to provide proper service are getting awfully close to passing the equilibrium point of where cutting costs starts costing them money because they can't serve enough guests properly.

It’s always amazing how people staying at the same vacation destination or on a cruise can have completely different experiences.
We got here Sunday staying until Thursday and the park is running Surprisingly well for being slightly understaffed. Better staffing than prior years we’ve been here late.

MF is down, but everything else opened today Valravn was down for awhile.

Service has been quite well, food was done right, but we don’t eat at the quick service stands really.

Got on SV 8 times with the complementary FL+ passes today, 7 of them in the last hour.
Supposed to be windy tomorrow so probably CPS day, they can’t control the weather.
The park was BUSY Sunday and Monday, great to see it this way. Lighthouse Point cabins were sold out, breakers close to sold out (suites were).

On a side note: McDonald, BK, Walmart are simply replacing employees with machines. They cost way less than $15/hr. And don’t screw up your order.

So there’s what - six weeks during the entire season where staffing issues aren’t a huge concern? I’ve said it before, but Europa Park, here’s your 2018 Golden Ticket Award. And I already know what the response will be - “that award means nothing, yadda yadda...” but the park suuuuure was proud as hell of it for the decade + that they were winning it...

@operative_me: probably the best contribution so far to this discussion. Way to move the conversation forward. Reminds me a lot of most of the idiot teens I work with that are only good at coming up with memes.

Anyways, as I had clarified my perspective from earlier; I don’t think that there are significant problems that are so far escalated beyond control that they can’t be corrected. But the majority opinion on here seems to be in agreement that basic things like guest services and food services are a repetitive issue. But we don’t represent the public opinion overall or at least there’s not enough data. This atttendance drop could very well be a one-off event.

I suppose it could become a concern if this started becoming a yearly pattern. Negative traffic growth over a span of 2, 3 or 4 years would then indicate a problem. Perhaps the true test will come this fall with how the park manages Halloweekends, I don’t doubt that if the same issues persist from last year it’ll show up on social media everywhere.

CPVet said:I’ve said it before, but Europa Park, here’s your 2018 Golden Ticket Award

CP got the ‘best’ park awards for a decade and a half during the kinzel years. If you think the Ouimet years are less deserving of the title you have a serious disconnect. In that time CF had consecutive record years... this year isn’t over yet, but I doubt they will match last year. The U.S. is experiencing its first major financial expansion in over a decade, so the middle income base demographics maybe skewed to higher budget vacations than prior years.
I’m not a CF apologist, there’s work they need to do, but the parks are demonstrably better than they used to be.., regardless of what a trade magazine with peculiar weighting tallies proclaims. And coming off of a decade of record revenues it’s highly likely they couldn’t care whether the park that had a massive uncontrollable fire on premise in Europe got the cheap plastic ‘ticket’ or if a direct competitor like six flags did. All in all, that’s a good problem to have.

Note to amusement today: nothing says ‘best park’ like fire hazards.

Obviously, at this point, more coasters are not what the park needs (OK, maybe an actual wooden coaster… GCI please!).

But from my perspective and opinion, the overall “experience” is suffering a bit at the park. Don’t get me wrong, the park looks better than ever and the Breakers work, the focus on the beach and the new attractions have been great. No denying that. Recent leadership has been quite epic in that regard, but part of me thinks it’s time to shift focus a bit.

I think at this point, it’s time to step back and look at the things that everybody experiences or has to deal with each visit? For one, Restrooms.

Would it really be that much of a stretch to spend a few million to rehab every single restroom in the park? Modernize and make larger where possible. Then once the park is open, actually staff them well and keep them clean? Proper doors to reduce bug intake and all that type of fun stuff would be a big help as well. The CP ones are universally some of the worst I’ve seen at any park, big or small. They are usually downright gross, even first thing in the morning which is sad. Just one of those things that families would especially appreciate - A very clean facility to take care of what they need when needed, especially with young kids and such. When there are bugs, bodily fluids and a lack of AC in these areas… That certainly doesn’t help.

But I can just imagine the corporate meetings about this when/if discussed… Spend 10 million on restroom upgrades and modernization, OR build a new attraction that in theory, will draw in attendance. You can’t exactly market new restrooms as easily… But hotel improvements, new rides, etc… That will make investors happy! It’s a tough sell, for sure.

My last suggestion would be the food at the park… It seems like a missed opportunity to me. There is decent variety and such, but in this day and age where everything is instagram’d and shared on social media constantly, you need to stick out. You need some ‘extreme’ food items, of sorts. Things that are flashy, look amazing and make people want to stand in line for because they saw all their friends get it. You don’t get that with fries and a burger in the traditional sense at least. Offer stuff outside of the box…

Just some random examples off the top of my head would be giant beef ribs smoked and grilled over a wood fire served in Frontier Town… Giant griddles like at Dollywood right off the main midway serving some epic street tacos (steak, chicken, tofu) and served with some amazing (exclusive to CP) hot sauces or other fun toppings that people can pick and choose… How about some extreme wood or coal fired pizza slices that are so huge and people can share with each other with some epic topping combos? (just google ‘giant pizza slice NY’)

Just my thoughts, though. I’d much rather have new restrooms and cool food than another new coaster at this point (again, unless a GCI… muhahah).

Restroom improvements are really needed and should be a priority. The new restroom at Shores, the one to the left when you walk in the main entrance, should be a model for all other restrooms on the peninsula. Proper doors to keep the bugs out, air conditioning, nice automatic fixtures and nice walls. CP knows how to do a nice restroom, it needs to spread around the park.

I’ve enjoyed reading everyones’ point of view on this forum, finding myself agreeing with far more opinions than those with which I disagree (often agreeing with seemingly contrary opinions). I also find myself generally trusting Cedar Fair’s corporate decisions, believing that it seems to have made marked improvements to the park’s rides, infrastructure, and customer experience. Yes, the quality of food is still an issue (although the Park has made some inroads to addressing this issue.) And, more times than not, upon entering a bathroom, I am left wondering if the park simply forgot that it was still there (this year they’ve all been relatively clean and functioning). But I believe improvements are being made, except to the biggest hurdle facing the park: staffing. This forum seems generally to agree that staffing is a difficult nut for the park to crack as it has yet to produce a creative and viable suggestion or recommendation for how to fix this problem other than the obvious: money. With Disney’s recent and masterfully utilized marketing boost in which they announced to the world a minimum wage of $15 for all employees, I suspect the grey suits at Cedar Fair are starting to sweat a little bit as their time of reckoning is getting closer. At what point do the decision makers start to address employee wages?

Except I believe the Disney deal will pay $15 in 2021, not immediately. This is probably in line, or close to it, with the normal progression of wage increases based on economic conditions. Saying to increase wages to $15 an hour will solve staffing problems is too simplistic and will likely not solve much. I think the main problem with the shoulder season occurs because there are not enough locals willing to work a seasonal job and the college students from areas away from the park find it too inconvenient to leave school to come to the park every weekend to work. I'm taking a wait and see attitude on the service quality the park will provide over Halloweekends this year. Last time I was there was Thursday through Sunday of last week and everything seemed well run and efficient in spite of it being the end of August. Maybe there will be some improvements this year.

To add on to the staffing of college students, I think there has also been a dramatic shift in students and industries placing way more of an importance on taking internships and co-ops during summers. In many industries this is almost a requirement in order to have any chance of getting a full time offer post graduation (and we're not talking one summer, many are 3-4 summers worth). This makes it a lot tougher for the summer tourism industry to lure college students in, no matter their pay scale, when the job isn't going to provide direct experience in the students future industry.

Invertalon said:

My last suggestion would be the food at the park… It seems like a missed opportunity to me. There is decent variety and such, but in this day and age where everything is instagram’d and shared on social media constantly, you need to stick out. You need some ‘extreme’ food items, of sorts. Things that are flashy, look amazing and make people want to stand in line for because they saw all their friends get it. You don’t get that with fries and a burger in the traditional sense at least. Offer stuff outside of the box…

The interesting thing here is that the park is literally trying this right now, with their Fire & Ice Sampling. They have a lot of dishes that are very unique, and I sampled them during my last visit. Some were definitely better than others, but overall these are bold new flavors when compared to the rest of the food at CP. And I really enjoyed some of them. The short ribs were really delicious, and I liked the pineapple skewer & lemonade offerings a lot as well.

And yet, no one appeared to be buying tickets for the event. During my whole sampling (8 small samples, I took a break in the middle of it), I maybe saw 2 or 3 other patrons enjoying the food. For the most part, the booths were all very empty, and the employees behind the counter were trying to keep themselves from being bored. I don't know if it's a price point issue, or if people just go to the park accepting that they'll be eating chicken fingers and fries for the day. But if this is a metric for acceptance of bold food offerings, I'm not sure if it's what they were hoping to see. A stark contrast from the Brew & BBQ event, in terms of sales.

^ Ah yes. It was a really cool idea in theory, and I did enjoy the foods I tried. But like you said, while my gf and I were sampling things with our little ticket lanyard thing, I might have seen 2 other people actually trying the food? I think the price point was pretty far off and when people saw what they were getting for the price, they were out. If I remember correctly, it was 30 bucks for 6 sample tickets? I don't know about your selections, but these samples were tiny. Like, samples. Not 5 dollar appetizer sized.

Agree that the portion sizes were very small in some cases. If you bought the lanyard in advance, it was $25, and it got you 8 tickets. So roughly $3 per sample, if you bought in advance. It very well could be the pricing that's driving the customers away, but it's at least something fresh and new. Unfortunate that the crowds don't seem to be responding to it.

I think the ticket system may hurt the popularity more than help it. I wouldn’t want to spend $25-30 to sample six dishes, versus just paying À la carte at $3-4 a dish if there is one or two items I want to sample… Like Epcot does with their food. Unless they did that?

To be honest, I never heard of that event until now. But I was only at the park once this year, so if they advertised it around I didn't see it. Don't recall on social media or anything like that, though.