Why Cedar Fair Might Be Struggling This Year

Another thought I had was with Kings Island and their decrease in season passes this year. Many blamed that on the “they didn’t have a new attraction this year” excuse but as clearly seen at Cedar Point, new rides aren’t the attendance driver they used to be. (Looking at you Kinzel). Interestingly enough, it seems Winterfest wasn’t enough to keep pass holders around either.

Guests want an experience when they go to any kind of amusement park, and I think that’s where Cedar Fair falls very short. There’s nothing to tie it all together. Even with the beach and Breakers, it’s still a very disconnected experience at Cedar Point that doesn’t feel like an all inclusive resort.

What’s the consistent theme that brings it together? And yes it’s an apples to oranges comparison, but Universal builds its attractions, hotels, and restaurants around the Hollywood movies experience. Disney is...Disney.

Cedar Fair is rides with fifty different themes, hotels that are...hotels, and food experiences that are a mix between mediocre and chain restaurants.

A five year plan that includes building new rides every two years isn’t sustainable anymore. I’m not at all saying these parks are bad, but they are clearly missing on the overall experience which is what guests remember the most.

Guests want an experience when they go to any kind of amusement park

You know this how? How are you defining "experience?" Are all 25 million annual visitors to Cedar Fair parks (in multiple states and two countries) some type of monolithic group all looking for the same thing?

First off you seem real argumentative and defensive. Maybe chill out. No one here is attacking Cedar Fair and you seem strangely defensive of them.

Second of all, it’s common sense. You don’t always remember your food at a restaurant, but you do remember whether or not your service was good or not, as well as the overall atmosphere. The same logic is applied over and over to any kind of venue. And having worked in customer facing positions for nearly twenty years as well as having worked for the amusement/entertainment industry, I happen to know that the experience is what is most important to most people. It’s what makes them likely, or unlikely to recommend or return to any such venue.

It’s clear that building a new roller coaster whether at Kings Island, Carowinds, or Cedar Point isn’t the answer anymore. And while recent efforts to focus on the resort aspect have been met with some success, the numbers don’t lie. Something is still missing.

Cedar Fair had record attendance and revenue in 2017. Attendance and Adjusted EBITDA have been trending up over the past 8 years or so. Not sure how a 2% decrease in revenue and a 3% decrease in attendance thru the first 2 quarters of this year is clear evidence that what they are doing is no longer working.

And if asking questions about your vague statement on a discussion board makes me argumentative and presenting facts makes me defensive, so be it.

Moving along, for those of us who actually read the article, and since we are dealing with 2018 and not last years numbers, I’m curious what the long term impact is from Winterfest across the parks that had it last year, and I wonder how this translates into a standard operating season; further I’m curious about Halloweekends, it’s a valid point that many of you have mentioned, and while we don’t have specific day to day numbers, it’s impact seems substantial enough to shift the attendance numbers positive. But is that a reflection of the guest experience changing or the lure of the Halloween event itself? (Yes I’m sticking with the experience idea because I think most of us agree that is the bigger picture here)

I think the overall experience for guests took a turn for the positive with the park physical improvements that were made through the Ouimet years. There was a strong focus on the appearance and overall quality of the park infrastructures and amenities. I believe this lead to positive overall impressions and good attendance and improved guest spending.
However, there a certain aspects of the Parks operations that haven’t really improved or got worse over this period; Such as general staffing, food services, ride capacity and others. Could the poor guest experiences from these areas finally be making an impact? Now that the parks phyiscal appearances have been solidly improved for a long enough period that they are expected or seen as commonplace? Are guests now not wowed that asphalt was replaced by pavers, the beach is utilized properly, the beds are comfortable.... do they now also expect what the park used to provide with high capacity rides, staffed food stands, and fully open park/water park during business hours? Are the parks successes finally catching up with them and now guests also expect more or they are more disappointed when they have a poor guest experience... I believe even CF has been backing away from the best day moniker. I sincerely hope this season is a one off for the chain and they can get the staffing problems solved and refocus on areas where they used to shine before the polish was applied.

mgou58 said:

There’s nothing to tie it all together. Even with the beach and Breakers, it’s still a very disconnected experience at Cedar Point that doesn’t feel like an all inclusive resort.

I've been critical of Breakers, given that the amenities don't match the "best" categorization of the park, but this is bonkers. Breakers and the park in general absolutely offer a cohesive experience, and it gets better every year. In addition to the hotel renovation, Gatekeeper opened things up so the beach is visible, there are new, modern, group facilities, the Boardwalk, Sandbar, gorgeous seating areas with fire pits, all sorts of games and activities on the beach, live music, the wine tour thing, the nighttime light/music thing, the renovation of SC into CPS placing additional emphasis on the beach, and on and on. It is absolutely a cohesive experience.

XS NightClub said:

You do realize they have parks in other states right?

Look up "you do realize" on Urban Dictionary.

mgou58 said:

It’s clear that building a new roller coaster whether at Kings Island, Carowinds, or Cedar Point isn’t the answer anymore. And while recent efforts to focus on the resort aspect have been met with some success, the numbers don’t lie. Something is still missing.

If that is true, how do you explain Kings Island having a record year in 2017 with Mystic Timbers?

Pete said:

mgou58 said:

It’s clear that building a new roller coaster whether at Kings Island, Carowinds, or Cedar Point isn’t the answer anymore. And while recent efforts to focus on the resort aspect have been met with some success, the numbers don’t lie. Something is still missing.

If that is true, how do you explain Kings Island having a record year in 2017 with Mystic Timbers?

My point was that it isn’t sustainable. They had a record year last year for sure. But their season passes took a hit this year. So what I’m saying is the newness of an attraction provides temporary lifts. Although SV, despite the overwhelmingly positive reviews seems to not have had the same effect as Mystic Timbers. We don’t have a full season yet so that could change.

To my point about the cohesive experience, I drove out to the end of the property where sandcastle used to be and thought that if a high end resort could be built there, then they’d have a great offering of resorts from low end to high end. And given the cheap construction fence placed out there, I think the park is not ignorant to the lack of a high end resort.

I don't think a high end resort is the answer, as nicely as one would fit on the former SS site. Breakers is already as much or more expensive than a good amount of the Disney resorts. I can't see them filling up 200, give or take, rooms at $400-$500 a night. I could be wrong, and I obviously don't have the data that Cedar Fair does, but I just don't see enough demand in the market.

The cabins are $375-$600 a night regular season and they have great sell through rates.

XS NightClub said:

...the beds are comfortable....

Where? Most certainly not Breakers (can't comment on the new "west" section which opened this year) or Castaway Bay. After staying in Breakers twice earlier this year, my wife and I have both sworn off the place until we've heard word that beds have been replaced. And we swore off Castaway Bay for the same reason last year. At those price points, the beds should be more comfortable. It's pretty bad when bed comfort at a "premier" on-property hotel pales in comparison to the Holiday Inn Express down the street.

Comfort of beds is subjective. What's comfortable to you may not be for many others and vice versa. I don't think hotels all get a certain mattress firmness.

^ Exactly. The beds in Breakers are better than they were 6 years ago when the springs from the mattress would poke your ribs while you’re trying to sleep

XS NightClub said:

The cabins are $375-$600 a night regular season and they have great sell through rates.

$300-$400 is roughly the range for cottages, cabins, and deluxe cabins for the remaining two regular season weekends. They deluxe cabin does sleep up to 10, more than any other room available (besides the combination option in Breakers). And it's $200 cheaper than Breakers' only outfit that sleeps 10. Still don't see the demand for $500+ a night rooms that sleep 4 people that warrants hundreds of units in a new building being erected.

Yes, obviously the prices are discounted when the demand is lower, which is the same reason they close earlier these two weeks. What you are not seeing in the lodging options are the room types that are sold out already. Breakers has many different room options other than the standard room. Those rooms command higher rates yet still sellout, so the park could see a demand for premium options.
Also, there is no platinum pass discount for lighthouse point lodging, and that’s on some of their highest room rates.
However, we will have no idea what they have planned until they announce.

As someone who is currently planning a trip to Disney, the room rate of $500 a night would be on par for a location that is on park property.

All of Disney's deluxe hotels have a starting rack rate of $400-$500, the monorail resorts and the Epcot ones. Now these rates can get discounts but the same is true of CP hotels.

If they make the hotel at the end of the point into a true resort, where you don't necessarily need to go to the park to enjoy the resort, then I think you could easily get people to book rooms even without including tickets. It would be a truly unique setting within the region. Also, that far back from the actual park itself would really be quite and removed from everything.

The fact that they didn't build out more of the "luxury" RV sites tells me that they are going to be doing something else with the land. Those were relatively cheap and would have been easier to build more then, when all the permits and such were already pulled, than to wait and do it now.

I would hope that the plan would be to get this completed before the 150th, but we should have already heard something. Or there should have been rumblings of something getting built. That has to be a complex spot to build on.

I just spent a bit under $500/night for one of the deluxe cabins at Cedar Point over the weekend and there was nothing luxury about it.

Would someone pay $600, 700, 800 per night at a luxury resort if they are not going to go into the park? That seems like a stretch to me. I get that you are on the tip of the peninsula but what else are you going to do at that location - walk the boardwalk? Hit the beach? It would seem to me that if you are willing to spend that much money for a hotel then you aren't vacationing at Lake Erie. Put it this way, would someone spend $500/night now and not go into the park? I know I wouldn't.

tedders55 said:

As someone who is currently planning a trip to Disney, the room rate of $500 a night would be on par for a location that is on park property.

All of Disney's deluxe hotels have a starting rack rate of $400-$500, the monorail resorts and the Epcot ones. Now these rates can get discounts but the same is true of CP hotel.

That is insane. I can’t imagine paying that much a night for a hotel, especially in the Orlando area where you can rent beautiful HOMES only minutes from Disney for $100-$150 a night and get 3-4 bedrooms, private pool, kitchen, game room, etc... Immaculate cleanliness, as well. We used to do it twice a year and would pay sometimes as low as $600-850 for a full week right outside of the property, then drive to the better Orlando area parks ;)

I hope/assume that $500/night rate includes park tickets, or something!