Why Cedar Fair Might Be Struggling This Year

Came across an interesting article that I felt warranted a new topic, what are your thoughts on this?

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/08/16/how-cedar-fair-is-fightin...track.aspx

Wow. 50% of park attendance is season passes? That’s absolutely insane.

https://pointbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/cedar-fair-reports-2018-second-q...-results/4

Already in this thread.

It is an interesting read though.

I don't think that is the case at CP though it certainly can be at Kings Island.

The analysts seem to want to push CF to a singular name over each park style branding and the subscription model pricing for passes.

But they point out some great marketing opportunities that others do that CF completely misses.

Gotta take most analysts with a grain of salt, they may understand the overall industry but not the intricacies that make it work.

Cedar Fair’s Cedar Point and Cedar Fair’s Kings Island just doesn’t roll off the tounge well but I could see today’s announcement as some sort of rebranding initiative.

It seems like most of the old “home park” limitations are gone but incentivizing travel to other parks could use some work.

SIX is also rolling out some sort of rewards/loyalty program next season. I have read CF tried FUNPerks but allegedly failed for reasons I am not really aware of.

I'm of the mind that the less CF is like Six Flags the better. They already have comparable revenues off of half the parks. Traditionally they're much cleaner and better run in most aspects. The standardized naming could be a benefit, but a Cedar Fair over each park sounds ridiculous.

Cedar Fair’s Canada’s Wonderland just doesn’t work. lol. I agree becoming more like SIX is not desireable but SIX does get some things right, especially restrooms. Back in 2010-2015 when I was taking my boys at least twice a week during the summer to SFSTL there was almost always an attendant in there cleaning. They were spotless and smelled decent with no pools of “liquid” on the floor or broken stall doors. Most had AC as well. I don’t know if they are still putting those resources into them but it sure left an impression on me and was in stark contrast to how CF maintains them.

I might even prefer clean restrooms over having the latest wiz bang super coaster. Maybe. :)

If I lived directly between 6 Flags Great Adventure and Cedar Point, I would spend far more time at 6 Flags. While that park has some issues, I feel that they don't cram down my throat the idea of needing to spend $175/visit in order to enjoy their park like Cedar Point and Kings Island do. On top of that, my gold pass for 6 Flags Great America is good at all of their parks, includes parking, but was only $80. Adding the meal plan which includes 2 meals, 1 snack and truly unlimited soft drinks brought it up to a whopping total of $170. the The Diamond Elite membership is $270 and includes huge discounts plus many awesome perks including premium preferred parking for every visit, 2 front of line passes each visit and many other perks and is good at all of their parks. Cedar Fair's platinum pass with food and drink is about $100 more than 6 Flags best plan and doesn't come with any better perks except early entry which not all CF parks offer. Cedar Point's early entry is the best I've experienced but it's probably that good, due in large part, to giving a big perk to staying on their properties.

Obviously, we have to wait for the year end totals to see how accurate each chain is in their reporting, but it sounds like most others have improved while CF's has attendance has gone down.

It's one thing to offer something on the side and upcharge, like the bikes on the beach or the food fests, but when you take from some and give it to others, you're more likely to anger more people than the few who are gaining from programs such as Fast Lane. While I know 6 Flags has a Flash Pass, I barely notice people using it because, on most rides, 6 Flags makes its use very discrete. One of the crew members at Kings Island on Sunday, was saying the that lines have been very short this summer. If that's the case, they need to figure out why. I say they could start by treating guests who pay for admission equally on what that admission includes. If they want to add additional services, more power to them. If I go into a restaurant and pay $50 for a steak, I would hope that another customer coming in and paying more wouldn't get to take pieces of my steak off my plate until he gets full before I get a single bite. That's how many people are feeling they are being treated by Cedar Fair with their FL program.

People are going to stop taking their family of 4 somewhere where they are being convinced they need to spend $700 just on parking, admission and FL, alone. I was raised in a family of 7. It would have cost my parents $1,250 for one day at CP. If that had been the case back then, we would have never gone.

That's a whole lot of Hyperbole.

99% of folks getting their panties in a wad about the "unfairness" of Fastlane are enthusiasts and regulars who are at the park several times a year and likely do not benefit from purchasing it. Once-a-year guests will either get it and reap the benefits or not get it and hardly realize there is another line. Or they may see "the fastpass" guests going in, have a thought about not wanting to pay extra, and go about their day.

If I had the choice of visiting a Six Flags park a half hour from home or a Cedar Fair park two hours from home, I'd likely choose the Cedar Fair park more often that not. Sure, I would have a pass to the Six Flags park and go from time to time to ride the rides. But if I was looking to have a quality guest experience or full day, I wouldn't think twice about spending the money with Cedar Fair.

I live 60 minutes from SFGAm, and 5.5 hours from Cedar Point. And I go to Cedar Point more days out of the year. I do admit there are areas that SIX does better. Their meal plan is really solid (2 meals and a snack every visit, as well as the all-season bottle included). But in terms of the total experience, it's not even close. Cedar Fair parks are a much more enjoyable experience, from my vantage point.

I wouldn’t necessarily call this year being a “struggle” for Cedar Fair. It’s a setback, and I truly think they will learn from the mistakes. In all honesty, the higher gate price has kept out the trouble (at least at CP) and for that I’m thankful. But I do agree that the price compared to quality (in terms of up charge attractions, games, and food) is just not there.

It’s crazy that I thought this would be a record year for attendance considering the additions chain wide, but the numbers don’t lie.

I live half way between Kennywood and CP. I can say I have been to Kennywood once within the past 6 years, and Cedar Point more times than I can count this year. The setting alone keeps me coming back. But there are definitely things that need improved on over this off-season to get the attendance back to where it needs to be.

The elephant in the room, of course, is that attendance is a lagging indicator. If your attendance is off this year and you can't explain it by the lousy weather in the springtime, one thing you absolutely have to consider is how badly you blew it *last year*. If people come to the park, spend a lot of money, and have a lousy time, you will have a great season. But your next season will be terrible.

Kings Island and Cedar Point are both running promotions that are designed to cram people into the park for the end of the summer. $25 for park admission and 'free' parking with an affiliate link you can find all over the Internet that anybody can use. Bring a friend for $cheap for the rest of the summer. $39.99 at Kings Island for admission, parking, and all you can drink. These promotions are *huge* traffic boosters, and we are seeing it work with very large "Omigoditstimeforschoolalready" week crowds at Cedar Point.

But here's the trick. If you're going to pack the park by giving away the gate in hopes of getting them all to come back next year, you have to do it right. Rides need to be running, and they need to be running at full capacity. Food joints, restaurants and drink stands need to be open and properly staffed. Everything needs to go right so that all these people want to come back for more next year. Because if the impression those cheap ticket people get is that even at $cheap they didn't get their moneys' worth (because the lines were too long, because things weren't running, because it rained, because...whatever) then they won't be back next year, either.

The good news is that FUN is pretty good at doing what they do. Right now it kind of looks like they are scrambling to make up the gate in the last weeks of summer, but they just ight e able to pull it off. And if they do it right, it will pay off handsomely through the fall and into next season.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

That comparison between Great America and Cedar Point made me laugh. I live far away from both, but much further away from Cedar Point, and I often drive right by SFGAm to get back to Cedar Point. I go to both parks more often than Valleyfair, though. Cedar Point is the only park that I try to hit almost every year.

How times have changed. I remember in the early 2000s when people would drive by Cedar Point to go to Six Flags Worlds of Adventure.

^ I was definitely not one of those people.

DSShives, Cartwright was making a sarcastic joke reference to a commercial Six Flags ran.

TwistedWicker77 said:

...It’s crazy that I thought this would be a record year for attendance considering the additions chain wide, but the numbers don’t lie....

4 words.... Halloweekends hasn't happened yet. In the last 5 years of my visits going to the park, Sept-October is alot more crowded than July and August. Remember the food shortages/ and 80k attendance day last year? Just wait, the weekend AFTER Columbus day weekend in 2017 was even more crowded than the holiday weekend before it. These stats will change, the Haunt season seems to be more and more visitors favorite time to go lately.

CPfan1976 said:

TwistedWicker77 said:

...It’s crazy that I thought this would be a record year for attendance considering the additions chain wide, but the numbers don’t lie....

4 words.... Halloweekends hasn't happened yet. In the last 5 years of my visits going to the park, Sept-October is alot more crowded than July and August. Remember the food shortages/ and 80k attendance day last year? Just wait, the weekend AFTER Columbus day weekend in 2017 was even more crowded than the holiday weekend before it. These stats will change, the Haunt season seems to be more and more visitors favorite time to go lately.

I see where you’re coming from with this, and I do agree that Halloweekends is a busy time of the year. However, I don’t necessarily think it will make up for the fact that it has been practically “dead” May-early August almost all season long. Also, 80k attendance has NEVER happened. I believe the highest day in terms of attendance has been mid/high 40k.