The Most Hated Department???
Perhaps the more important discussion is whether or not having the drinking age at 21 actually impacts whether or not the 18-20 set drinks. I was hardly a party-hard college kid, but my own experience says it doesn't make a bit of difference.
And yeah, by the time you're 21, you certainly drink for different reasons.
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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - My Blog
Blogs, photo albums - CampusFish
What time does the water show start?
Ben Englund said:Oh shut up. You can not tell me you were 'of age' when you had your first drink, and I know you enjoyed it.
Surprise, surprise... Saying that you absolutely do not know me, here's news for you. I NEVER drank anything -- beyond church communion -- before my 21st birthday. Why? Because I didn't feel the need to, and I didn't want to suffer the consequences if I was caught.
Not EVERYONE drinks before they're 21. Why? Because they have respect for themselves and for the law. Drinking isn't that important or necessary.
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~Lee~
Group Sales ATL '01
Group Sales TL '02
Park Admissions Zone 5 Supervisor '03
2004 TBA -- Wow, four years already?!
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"The greatest leaders don't take credit for their actions; they don't have to."
The three times I've been to louies it was to be someones body guard. Not to hang out. My personal opinion was I'm a ride operator, I had best not be getting drunk. That would be like drinking and driving.
My crew always went to other places to socialize than louies or a bar. Why? because there is more to CP than Louies or drinking. Socializing I think is what it's called, that's what brings people to CP. Human nature of being social creatures.
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- Chris -
I think a major contributing factor to the problem with alcohol in this country is that fact that it's illegal until you're 21. In Europe they don't have the problems that we have here with alcohol because they have removed the underlying "coolness" to drink since it is legal at a very young age.
The same can be said about their take on sex education. In Europe the teenage pregnancy rate is next to nil. But in the US I know of many, many schools (I'm from a rural area) that still preach abstinence. They don't even bring up the possibility of contraceptives because they think that saying "Don't do it" will be enough. Using the STD scare tactics obviously aren't working very effectively because of such a high teenage pregnancy rate.
You can learn more useful information from MTV (ugh) about how to be safe than from sex ed classes meant to educate on such topics. If it weren't for programs like Love Line I wouldn't have even heard of Plan B (morning after pill and NO it's not an abortion pill!).
I don't understand the mindset in US to just keep pushing the issues aside until they escalate to a point where they can no longer be fixed. Europe definitely has the right idea as far as these social issues go. It would be nice if they were accepted across the pond.
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Everything that has a beginning has an end.
The Matrix Revolutions
*** This post was edited by CP_bound 12/10/2003 10:10:40 AM ***
I think a major contributing factor to the problem with alcohol in this country is that fact that it's illegal until you're 21.
I'm not going to into this here, because I've already done so at CoasterBuzz ... but that statement is simply not true. Students don't say "it's not legal for me to have this drink, so I'm going to get hammered." In large park, the drinking problem on campus exists because the norm leans toward excessive drinking, egged on by the creative marketing of the alcohol industry. Some students simply see it as part of their college experience.
Europe has as big a problem with youth drinking as we do.
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Walt Schmidt
Virtual Midway
*** This post was edited by Gemini 12/10/2003 10:39:47 AM ***
Using 1996 numbers, alcohol related deaths in the US were 32 per 100,000 people, while in Europe as a whole, it was .75 (that's 3/4 of a person) per 100,000. I'd say there are cultural issues involved to say the least.
Understand that I'm not for youth drinking... that isn't the issue, and I don't think anyone here is arguing for it. The point we're all making here is that it's a far deeper issue than "that's bad and this is good."
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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - My Blog
Blogs, photo albums - CampusFish
What time does the water show start?
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Walt Schmidt
Virtual Midway
*** This post was edited by Gemini 12/10/2003 11:29:00 AM ***
Hmmm. I'd contend that there's something mentally wrong with someone compelled to find their fun in a bottle or can instead!
For crying out loud, find something else to do. You'll have plenty of time to reek like all get-out, kneel before the porcelain god and get that liver cracklin' like a Rice Krispie bar soon enough. We may have surmised you're a-chompin' on the bit already. Bon voyage. Don't drive thru my neighborhood.
-CO
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya 12/8/2003 5:27:45 PM ***
That's fine... contend all you want. A *huge* percentage of underage teens drink and it's fine with me. All unless they drive, and they're not in this case, so who cares?
BTW: Who are you to tell others what they should and shouldn't do to get some jollies? Are you a parent or something that thinks they have a say in everyone's lives? When was your first drink? And also: How old are you now? I'm sure you were underage when you drank, and if not then you're just lame in yourself. Also, drinking once a week is by NO means finding 'mentally wrong'.
AlsoBTW: If you are a person that falls under the 'I could drink when I was 18' then you have *no* idea what you are talking about b/c you could drink whenever you darned well please.
I've personally got my jollies out a long time ago, puked once, and now am content to not drink hardely at all. I do on RARE occasions, but it's hugely few and far between. Is this a crime? Maybe. Is it hurting anybody? Def. not. Would it be hurting anybody if I walked across a bridge into my appartment or dorm from across the street? Def. not. Point and case.
Gemini said:
Why do young people drink? Because they enjoy a glass of fine wine ... or because they want to get drunk? There is a huge alcohol problem in colleges. Lowering the drinking age would make it that much worse.Young adults are responsible for more than half of all alcohol-related fatal crashes. They also have the highest BAC in fatal crashes. This is why the age was raised from 18 to 21 in the first place. It was a very good decision.
The old enough to die for your country argument is comparing apples and oranges. I read somewhere once that, "To die for your country is one thing, but to die because you made a poor choice to break the law and drink underage is quite another."
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Walt Schmidt
Virtual Midway
*** This post was edited by Gemini 12/9/2003 5:22:02 PM ***
Mmm it's not really apples and oranges at ALL... it's apples to apples. You decided to drink, you died. You decided to join the forces, you died. You made a decision in both cases and both have a consequence that you know of.
It is a proven and known fact that those countries that have NO drinking age (or one that is really low ... like 5yrs old) have like MINIMAL drinking problems in youths.
Now... Let's take a country that fought for its freedom because they didn't want to have to pay the Queen some outrageous taxes. Now take this same country and tell them they can't drink until they're 'old enough' which was set by a group of 98 year old codgers that can't hardly see with the strongest bifocals. Do you actually think for a minute that the country that fought for their freedoms is going to sit down and stick their thumbs up their bums until they are 21 to drink, or you think they are going to drink before they are 21. You do the math. My case still exists that people that are over 25 have no say in this topic because they have not had to face the 'not being able to do something' in a VERY long time, and as such do not know what it is like to not be able to legally drink. I'm sure after a long while it would seem trivial, but da*nit it's not!
Lee said:
Ben Englund said:Oh shut up. You can not tell me you were 'of age' when you had your first drink, and I know you enjoyed it.
Surprise, surprise... Saying that you absolutely do not know me, here's news for you. I NEVER drank anything -- beyond church communion -- before my 21st birthday. Why? Because I didn't feel the need to, and I didn't want to suffer the consequences if I was caught.
Not EVERYONE drinks before they're 21. Why? Because they have respect for themselves and for the law. Drinking isn't that important or necessary.
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~Lee~Group Sales ATL '01
Group Sales TL '02
Park Admissions Zone 5 Supervisor '03
2004 TBA -- Wow, four years already?!
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"The greatest leaders don't take credit for their actions; they don't have to."
Good for you. I feel bad for you but like I've said I don't drink EVERY DAY like some people think college kids do. Only Frats and Sororities do and I don't agree with this but that's the way it is. I personally love that I've had the experience before I waited til I was 21, drank so much that I would almost O.D., and then have to have my stomach pumped. I instead have had a very gradual bringing into the whole scene, and I'm actually almost over it. My point is not that I love to drink, I just think it's very wrong for others to say people are going to HELL because they do drink before 21 because it's not the case and is lame and actually stupid to wait that long so you get trashed many times over.
I seriously think that the day I turn 21 I will buy a bottle of rum or something and that will be it. Nothing extravagent, nothing fancy, just so I can say I bought it. Kind of like how I bought a pack of cigarettes. I bought them for someone else but it wasn't the fact that I wanted them, I just wanted to see the person say OK. It's kinda like have a personal clearance for 'authorized access required' areas.
EDIT: Addition following this.....
BTW: I read someone else's comment. I've went to Louise's ONCE, and I didn't even drink that night. I clearly also can say I never drank but ONCE during my CP summer and not once did I even come close to touching anything the day before I worked so I was in the clear and had a level head every day for work... just thought I'd clear this up cause it sounded like I was a drunk or something, because I'm not like I've said I drink maybe twice in a month and that's at most and half the time I don't even get a buzz, so take that for all it's worth.
*** This post was edited by Ben Englund 12/11/2003 1:02:44 AM ***
It is a proven and known fact that those countries that have NO drinking age (or one that is really low ... like 5yrs old) have like MINIMAL drinking problems in youths.
That is absolutely a false statement. It's a problem everywhere. Read this from the World Health Organization. They even suggest the raising of the minimum drinking age as one of the possible solutions.
With all the evidence to the contrary, if you really think that reducing or eliminating the minimum drinking age is the solution to the drinking problem ... then there's nothing I can say to change your mind. Your arguments are based more on the fact that you're underage and you want to drink rather than any actual facts.
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Walt Schmidt
Virtual Midway
*** This post was edited by Gemini 12/11/2003 6:56:50 AM ***
Oh and on the topic of most hated department, i'm gonna have to go with the 3rd shift police around commons.
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Monster/W.W. Crew '03
Many probably will totally disagree with removing the drinking age, but I don't think government's job is to protect your from yourself, or to try to keep you "healthy" if you want to do something "unhealthy".
Freedom is another word for personal choice. Along with freedom comes responsibility. A government should not prevent a person from making a choice that is harmful to themselves. If many people make bad choices and that results in higher costs for society as a whole, so be it. That is part of the cost of having a free society.
As far as the CP cops go, they are just doing what they are assigned. They want to keep their jobs as much as the rest of us.
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I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks,
than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.
Jeff said:
Using 1996 numbers, alcohol related deaths in the US were 32 per 100,000 people, while in Europe as a whole, it was .75 (that's 3/4 of a person) per 100,000.------------------
Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - My Blog
Blogs, photo albums - CampusFish
What time does the water show start?
Hmm... I do remember this one... I'm sorry but .75 people in 100,000 is NOT something to loose sleep over. That is *not* a problem in my book, thanks Walt.
raptor_hooker said:
i'm sorry, i coulda sworn that this was supposed to be a conversation about why cp coppers were hated...not a debate on why it's stupid to drink underage??
Yeah? And we changed it. It happens. We answered her question a long time ago and then debated about something else. While, yes it should have been in another... ... wait... what does this have to do about Cedar Point at all?! Ok that's it I really *am* not commenting anymore. Deaf ears your comments will fall on... plus I have to do homework :-D Darned internet and it stealing my time away!
I'll bet you're even more clever, witty, well-reasoned and hey, just downright scintillating with a couple drinks in ya. Wow.
-CO
(who sees why people around our friend drink...)
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya 12/11/2003 11:09:31 AM ***
That is *not* a problem in my book, thanks Walt.
The World Health Organization would disagree, but maybe that's because they didn't consult with you.
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Walt Schmidt
Virtual Midway
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