The fast pass system PART 2
With close to two hour lines on a June weekday for MF, what do you think the weekend July and August waits would have been? Three or four hours would not be unrealistic. How much ride time would you get during the busy months this year? Probably not that much. I think I'm different than some of you in that I won't wait in a very long line. Outside of the first ride on a new coaster, I know I won't stand in a two, three, or four hour line on a regular basis. So my MF rides would have probably come to an end in during July and August without TTR. I will have to try getting there early and spending about an hour or so collecting a few TTR tickets. Seems like a beneficial system to me that can get better with further refinement.
There are only so many seats available on MF during a certain time period regardless of the queue system. TTR just compresses the time it takes to get a seat by giving "virtual" seats. Over, let's say, an eight hour period, about 10400 people can ride. Those 10400 people can be spread out over the entire 8 hrs., or their seats can be reserved by TTR in 2 or 3 hrs. You still ride in the order that you obtained your "virtual" seat. If you want multiple rides, get back in line and get another ticket. That's just as fair as getting in line again for the real ride. If you think in terms of "virtual" seats, it's a very fair system. Everything has just been compressed to a shorter time period, to the benefit of many CP guests. If you get there too late and all the seats have been reserved, tough, just wait 'till 8:00pm, than you can ride. It's really no different than reserving a plane ticket a few weeks in advance, if the flight gets sold out the walk ups will have to wait. I applaud CP for trying this system, I have faith that they will refine it a make it better. I do feel it is the wave of the future and people who have a problem with this will just have to change their mindset a little bit.
This goes right along the lines of sim rides. Soon we will have all virtuel rides will virtuel queues. :)
Pete, the line has not reached over two hours with three trains running. Raptor has had longer lines.
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Dispatch Master, This is Transport one! I'm losing control, I'm losing control!
Pete, the line has not reached over two hours with three trains running. Raptor has had longer lines.
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Dispatch Master, This is Transport one! I'm losing control, I'm losing control!
Oh, one more thing I just thought of. Let's say MF would be at PKI. PKI would shut the queue line early, limiting the amount of riders the ride could have in one day. If the park had 40,000 people in it, there is no way everyone would get to ride. CP, by opening the queue to general admission at 8:00pm, at least ensures that anyone in attendance that day will get a ride if they want one. Another reason I think it's a fair system, especially when compared to early queue line closings at other parks. If anyone is wondering, I DO have a big problem with early queue line closing, I'm against that almost as much as Servo is against TTR. :)
...Except that with the ticketing system, they are allocating all 10,000 seats within two or three hours, possibly less. At the rate they were distributing tickets on Saturday morning, it would take almost five hours to distribute the tickets; the fact that they were 'sold out' by 2:00pm when I returned to the ride indicates that they either picked up the pace a bit, or deliberately undersold the ride.
In practice, it is unlikely that 10,000 people are going to arrive at the Millennium Force queue between 11:00am and 2:00pm and decide to wait. 4,000-4,500 people perhaps during that time will join the queue, depending on how long the line is at 11:00. Instead, people tend to look at the line, decide it is too long, and move on to something else, returning to the ride when the crowd has abated a bit. This happens throughout the day, and what you ultimately find is that once the ride's queues fill completely, people tend to join the queue at about the same rate that they leave the queue at the other end. A good demonstration of this is what happened to Blue Streak in 1994. Prior to 1994, people would line up for the Blue Streak until they filled the queue, and the queue began to spill out onto the midway. That line rarely ever extended beyond the Calypso, and when it did, it was about a 20-minute wait. The longest line I ever saw for the Blue Streak prior to 1994 was for an ACE ERT in 1992 when the line extended from the queue entrance and stretched halfway down the main midway.
For the 1994 season, Blue Streak was reengineered for flush-loading, and a 60-minute queue structure was constructed behind the station to replace the 10-minute queue structure located in front of the ride. Now it is not at all uncommon on busy days to see a 60-75 minute wait for the Blue Streak, simply because the queue structure can handle that many people before potential riders decide, "I'm not waiting that long to ride the Blue Streak."
The upshot of all this is that the same holds true for other rides. The lines for Cedar Point coasters, when they are running at or near capacity...particularly when they are running at greater than 1,000 PPH...will rarely spill beyond the queue structures even on busy days. Once the queue is full, most (not all) people tend to move on to another ride. So without the ticket system, you're not going to get an 8-hour queue at 11:00 in the morning. With the ticket system, people *do* have to effectively wait in an 8-hour virtual queue, and to get a ride in that 8-hour period, they must show up ("get in line") early. Without the tickets, the line's length is self-limited, and people can enter the queue at any time during the day. Why does it make any sense at all to trade a self-limiting 90-120-minute queue contained within the queue structure for a series of large mobs of pissed off people standing on the Frontier Trail?
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
In practice, it is unlikely that 10,000 people are going to arrive at the Millennium Force queue between 11:00am and 2:00pm and decide to wait. 4,000-4,500 people perhaps during that time will join the queue, depending on how long the line is at 11:00. Instead, people tend to look at the line, decide it is too long, and move on to something else, returning to the ride when the crowd has abated a bit. This happens throughout the day, and what you ultimately find is that once the ride's queues fill completely, people tend to join the queue at about the same rate that they leave the queue at the other end. A good demonstration of this is what happened to Blue Streak in 1994. Prior to 1994, people would line up for the Blue Streak until they filled the queue, and the queue began to spill out onto the midway. That line rarely ever extended beyond the Calypso, and when it did, it was about a 20-minute wait. The longest line I ever saw for the Blue Streak prior to 1994 was for an ACE ERT in 1992 when the line extended from the queue entrance and stretched halfway down the main midway.
For the 1994 season, Blue Streak was reengineered for flush-loading, and a 60-minute queue structure was constructed behind the station to replace the 10-minute queue structure located in front of the ride. Now it is not at all uncommon on busy days to see a 60-75 minute wait for the Blue Streak, simply because the queue structure can handle that many people before potential riders decide, "I'm not waiting that long to ride the Blue Streak."
The upshot of all this is that the same holds true for other rides. The lines for Cedar Point coasters, when they are running at or near capacity...particularly when they are running at greater than 1,000 PPH...will rarely spill beyond the queue structures even on busy days. Once the queue is full, most (not all) people tend to move on to another ride. So without the ticket system, you're not going to get an 8-hour queue at 11:00 in the morning. With the ticket system, people *do* have to effectively wait in an 8-hour virtual queue, and to get a ride in that 8-hour period, they must show up ("get in line") early. Without the tickets, the line's length is self-limited, and people can enter the queue at any time during the day. Why does it make any sense at all to trade a self-limiting 90-120-minute queue contained within the queue structure for a series of large mobs of pissed off people standing on the Frontier Trail?
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
*sing-songy* I hate the Ticket To RiiIIde, I hate the Ticket To RiiIIde!
This stupid thing is going to ruin Cedar Point forever in my mind if it continues any longer...Nut is exactly right, they want to suck every damn penny out of our pockets by making us walk around the midway when we would be normally waiting for a ride. That is half the fun of an amusement park: waiting in line, and that's what has happenned the past 100 years at parks, why should it change now? Not that many people were complaining anyway, and if they were, that would be all they did in life anyway.
I go to Cedar Point to ride Magnum 5 times in a day, and STILL have time to hit the rest of the Fearsome Five at least once, twice for Raptor, plus one on the classic, Blue Streak. Can I do it now? NO!
(Time for a skit)
Alan Kalter (from Late Show w\ David Letterman): So, Cayl, how does the Ticket To Ride System make you feel?
Cayl: Like a loser!
Alan: LIKE a PRISONER!
Cayl: Yeah, I have to follow THEIR schedule, not mine! Should I? NO!
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BAN THE TICKET TO RIDE SYSTEM, BAN THE TICKET TO RIDE SYSTEM, BOYCOTT CEDAR FAIR UNTIL IT IS GONE!!!
This stupid thing is going to ruin Cedar Point forever in my mind if it continues any longer...Nut is exactly right, they want to suck every damn penny out of our pockets by making us walk around the midway when we would be normally waiting for a ride. That is half the fun of an amusement park: waiting in line, and that's what has happenned the past 100 years at parks, why should it change now? Not that many people were complaining anyway, and if they were, that would be all they did in life anyway.
I go to Cedar Point to ride Magnum 5 times in a day, and STILL have time to hit the rest of the Fearsome Five at least once, twice for Raptor, plus one on the classic, Blue Streak. Can I do it now? NO!
(Time for a skit)
Alan Kalter (from Late Show w\ David Letterman): So, Cayl, how does the Ticket To Ride System make you feel?
Cayl: Like a loser!
Alan: LIKE a PRISONER!
Cayl: Yeah, I have to follow THEIR schedule, not mine! Should I? NO!
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BAN THE TICKET TO RIDE SYSTEM, BAN THE TICKET TO RIDE SYSTEM, BOYCOTT CEDAR FAIR UNTIL IT IS GONE!!!
Ok, I have heard all the sides to this thing, and well tonight I saw the worst thing that I would ever think to see as I drove by the line. Most nights before this worthless ticket to ride thing started would be about to the vending machines. Roughly a hour to hour and a half wait from there. Now tonight, I drove by and the line stopped at the bottom of the ramp to the platform. I think this is appalling to me. Why? Well, one of my co-workers commented that the TICKET TO RIDE IS A SOLUTION TO A PROBLEM THAT NEVER EXISTED!!!! I agree totally with that. I can vouch that lines for other rides are just as long as they always have been. Gemini about 30 minutes (I walk by it every day going on break). Magnum is about a hour too. Last Saturday, I saw the Raptor line completely filled. In my opinion, this thing is stupid and pointless!!!!! WHY???? There was no problem to begin with, why make a problem with a solution to something that wasn't a problem to begin with???
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Ticket to ride??? TICKET TO GET PISSED!!!
ticket free rides: 3
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Ticket to ride??? TICKET TO GET PISSED!!!
ticket free rides: 3
WOW! 2 hours to read "MF TICKET TO RIDE" and "MF TICKET TO RIDE-2.
Seems to me I could have ridden MF and got back in line to ride again in the time allotted to read these 2 posts. Of course that would be under the old queuing system.
Now apparently if I want to wait, it will be anywhere from 5-6 rides in one hour, upwards of 1 ride in 8 hours. No thanks! 5-6 rides in one our is great if you have no conscience about the fact that you are stopping other people from getting even 1 ride.The ever popular "I feel bad that some people didn't get to ride, but TOUGH S#~& I got my rides in in one hour." "It's not my fault, blame CP! It's there system" )Yes, I know these are not direct quotes, but these people know who I am talking about. Anyways, all the excuses for abusing the system are CRAP!
If you are going to try and make CP stand up and be accountable for there actions, so you should also be accountable for yours!
That being said I don't want to even go to the park and give the system a chance because I don't want the headache that apparently arrives every day since this system was put into place.
6-20-00 (Tuesday) The park was absolutely loaded! Longest waits I had seen all year for all the OTHER coasters!
Magnum- 1 1/2 hours
Raptor- 1 3/4 hours
Mantis- 1 1/4 hours
MF----- 1 3/4 hours
This TTR excuse of no one on other rides is just that--an excuse!
If applied to other rides I WILL not be back! I will spend my money elsewhere! So they won't miss us? So they won't listen to us? Fine, we (enthusiasts) may be the minority, but why do you think they hold all the coaster events at parks for the enthusiasts. Because we matter! Or we thought we did! Apparently not anymore by the deaf ears this is falling on. So be it!
Yes, all the other parks may have problems to, but I am willing to try them out once or twice. It will keep me busy for awhile and who knows maybe I'll find a new #1 park. Oh yeah, it will be reflected in my voting online.
Jeff L.
Seems to me I could have ridden MF and got back in line to ride again in the time allotted to read these 2 posts. Of course that would be under the old queuing system.
Now apparently if I want to wait, it will be anywhere from 5-6 rides in one hour, upwards of 1 ride in 8 hours. No thanks! 5-6 rides in one our is great if you have no conscience about the fact that you are stopping other people from getting even 1 ride.The ever popular "I feel bad that some people didn't get to ride, but TOUGH S#~& I got my rides in in one hour." "It's not my fault, blame CP! It's there system" )Yes, I know these are not direct quotes, but these people know who I am talking about. Anyways, all the excuses for abusing the system are CRAP!
If you are going to try and make CP stand up and be accountable for there actions, so you should also be accountable for yours!
That being said I don't want to even go to the park and give the system a chance because I don't want the headache that apparently arrives every day since this system was put into place.
6-20-00 (Tuesday) The park was absolutely loaded! Longest waits I had seen all year for all the OTHER coasters!
Magnum- 1 1/2 hours
Raptor- 1 3/4 hours
Mantis- 1 1/4 hours
MF----- 1 3/4 hours
This TTR excuse of no one on other rides is just that--an excuse!
If applied to other rides I WILL not be back! I will spend my money elsewhere! So they won't miss us? So they won't listen to us? Fine, we (enthusiasts) may be the minority, but why do you think they hold all the coaster events at parks for the enthusiasts. Because we matter! Or we thought we did! Apparently not anymore by the deaf ears this is falling on. So be it!
Yes, all the other parks may have problems to, but I am willing to try them out once or twice. It will keep me busy for awhile and who knows maybe I'll find a new #1 park. Oh yeah, it will be reflected in my voting online.
Jeff L.
Majin Hero, yes I am mad at CP but I don't feel that my posts have been abusive or that my anger has been directed towards any one person. With 18 hours at Coastermania, being the 2nd person in the MF line and getting 3 rides in that day along with 16 hours at PKI with UltimateRollercoaster the next day. I guess that makes myself and my daughter APE's. Amusement Park Enthusiasts. We like to RIDE. With TTR our chances of riding have gone into the toilet so to speak.
CP owes us nothing as season passholders other that to insure the park is open during advertised hours of operation. Then again I don't have to visit the park anymore either if I feel betrayed and taken advantage of.
I have waited 3 3/4 hours for the MF queue to open and the longest time in line to date is 3hrs 37 min. I'm not whining. If we want to wait, at least CP could give us the opportunity. With TTR
My family only got 1 ride in on June 24th. I think CP should hire Forrest Gump. As least he would put some thought into a solution. And I don't think there was a problem to begin with, except when only 2 trains were running.
I don't really think that CP cares about this issue or the people inconvienced by it. Especially when the possibility exists where the system may be expanded to other rides.
This is typical big business behavior where there is a moron or someone who is acting like a moron at the top. That person usually inflicts his or her ideas on their company without any regards to the outcome or any serious planning. It's all a matter of power and control. Usually the one at the top wants things done their way or you can hit the highway, whether their idea is any good or not and whether their company will suffer as a result of it.
BTW I hope all of you who go to the Point this holiday weekend have no problems at all and TTR
keeps you coming back for more:)
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You can fool others, but nothing you do is hidden from God.
JESUS rules :) :) *** This post was edited by Scooter on 6/30/2000. ***
CP owes us nothing as season passholders other that to insure the park is open during advertised hours of operation. Then again I don't have to visit the park anymore either if I feel betrayed and taken advantage of.
I have waited 3 3/4 hours for the MF queue to open and the longest time in line to date is 3hrs 37 min. I'm not whining. If we want to wait, at least CP could give us the opportunity. With TTR
My family only got 1 ride in on June 24th. I think CP should hire Forrest Gump. As least he would put some thought into a solution. And I don't think there was a problem to begin with, except when only 2 trains were running.
I don't really think that CP cares about this issue or the people inconvienced by it. Especially when the possibility exists where the system may be expanded to other rides.
This is typical big business behavior where there is a moron or someone who is acting like a moron at the top. That person usually inflicts his or her ideas on their company without any regards to the outcome or any serious planning. It's all a matter of power and control. Usually the one at the top wants things done their way or you can hit the highway, whether their idea is any good or not and whether their company will suffer as a result of it.
BTW I hope all of you who go to the Point this holiday weekend have no problems at all and TTR
keeps you coming back for more:)
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You can fool others, but nothing you do is hidden from God.
JESUS rules :) :) *** This post was edited by Scooter on 6/30/2000. ***
I think I've finally seen the light! So let's apply what we've learned to other parks:
Let's all boycott SFO because they have dirty restrooms and $7 parking
Let's all boycott Disney because they made Fast Pass popular
Let's all boycott Paramount parks because they don't know how to count roller coasters
Let's all boycott Dollywood ... well, because it's Dollywood!
Solution? Everybody stay home and play Roller Coaster Tycoon and design perfect parks.
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Cedar Point Virtual Midway
http://www.schmidty.com/cpvirtual
Let's all boycott SFO because they have dirty restrooms and $7 parking
Let's all boycott Disney because they made Fast Pass popular
Let's all boycott Paramount parks because they don't know how to count roller coasters
Let's all boycott Dollywood ... well, because it's Dollywood!
Solution? Everybody stay home and play Roller Coaster Tycoon and design perfect parks.
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Cedar Point Virtual Midway
http://www.schmidty.com/cpvirtual
Ya know, I was just thinking about what some other people said way above this post. Why isn't Cedar Point doing anything if they now that it is making so many people unhappy? The answer may be that they do not no we don't like it.
Stick with me for a second.
Sure we are complaining on here and my observation is that the majority do not like the system. I would guess that this system was decided on by someone who is very high up (but just low enough) in the park and probably has been doing other things than been talking to the people who read this page.
This is just guessing but if you hate or like this system I would suggest writing them E-mail and snail-mail, calling them, or even tell the folks at guest services your opinion on the system. That might be a lot more productive than doing what we are doing now.
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DisXpatch ~MastXer, Th~is isX TransXport XoneX!
Changed to:
"Ticket Master thismis Ticket to Rider. I'm losing control, I'm losing control!"
Stick with me for a second.
Sure we are complaining on here and my observation is that the majority do not like the system. I would guess that this system was decided on by someone who is very high up (but just low enough) in the park and probably has been doing other things than been talking to the people who read this page.
This is just guessing but if you hate or like this system I would suggest writing them E-mail and snail-mail, calling them, or even tell the folks at guest services your opinion on the system. That might be a lot more productive than doing what we are doing now.
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DisXpatch ~MastXer, Th~is isX TransXport XoneX!
Changed to:
"Ticket Master thismis Ticket to Rider. I'm losing control, I'm losing control!"
It has been mentioned in other threads that some CP officials read this site. I do wonder which officials read hear perhaps...Richard Kinzel or Bryan Edwards or Janice Witherow or Robin Innes.
Dave is right that ride times for all the other rides would not decrease much (probably around 5-10 minutes). However one other reason I dislike this TTR is CP telling us when to ride, Getting no ride if the ride is broken down during your hour, Getting no ride if it rains during your hour. At least with it the old way you could choose to stay in the MF line as long as you wanted when the ride broke down or it started to rain, and you could get in line when you wanted...who would of thunk it.
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Raptor Flights: 55
Force Rides: 26
Dave is right that ride times for all the other rides would not decrease much (probably around 5-10 minutes). However one other reason I dislike this TTR is CP telling us when to ride, Getting no ride if the ride is broken down during your hour, Getting no ride if it rains during your hour. At least with it the old way you could choose to stay in the MF line as long as you wanted when the ride broke down or it started to rain, and you could get in line when you wanted...who would of thunk it.
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Raptor Flights: 55
Force Rides: 26
Hey dont mock TYCOON...Ive built great coasters BETTER than MF,but noone will ride them cause they are too INTENSE.Anyway,if CP doesnt wake up soon,noone will ride theirs either.Its us the public who make theme parks what they are.Why do you think they call them TOURIST ATTRACTIONS???
Well there certainly isnt anything attractive about standing in line to get a ticket to stand in line for a ride.Didnt we already stand in line to get a ticket to get into the damn park?
Something has to be done about this craziness.
Granted its a new coaster,the biggest,fastest and baddest but didnt they foresee this problem while they were building the thing?With all the hype it was getting they should of known how popular it was going to be and did something from the very start.Its now hurting them cause another park will come along and top theirs.PKI has an awesome coaster just as popular and they arent using the pass and things are working well there.I just dont understand it.This is a no brainer on their part.Its causing nothing but havoc in the park which will eventually lead to violence,vandalism and arrests.Cant wait to see tomorrows news when someone gets shot over a TTR,because someone got more than someone else.They dont think ahead,they only think the present.
Well there certainly isnt anything attractive about standing in line to get a ticket to stand in line for a ride.Didnt we already stand in line to get a ticket to get into the damn park?
Something has to be done about this craziness.
Granted its a new coaster,the biggest,fastest and baddest but didnt they foresee this problem while they were building the thing?With all the hype it was getting they should of known how popular it was going to be and did something from the very start.Its now hurting them cause another park will come along and top theirs.PKI has an awesome coaster just as popular and they arent using the pass and things are working well there.I just dont understand it.This is a no brainer on their part.Its causing nothing but havoc in the park which will eventually lead to violence,vandalism and arrests.Cant wait to see tomorrows news when someone gets shot over a TTR,because someone got more than someone else.They dont think ahead,they only think the present.
Yes, certain people visit the site from the park. Trust me, I've had a lot of e-mail from various park folk. I have a lot of insight into their logic for the continued "test" (that term accompanies every message), but I think that some of what they think is flawed.
The point is that I think they'll figure it out, and either improve the system or pitch it. Trust me, they're perfectly aware of how you feel.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 34
The point is that I think they'll figure it out, and either improve the system or pitch it. Trust me, they're perfectly aware of how you feel.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 34
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