The fast pass system PART 2
This is a continuation of the old thread, which has become so large that load times are out of control. Part 1 can be found at:
http://www.guidetothepoint.com/thepoint/cpplace/thread.asp?ForumID=2&TopicID=2520
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 34
http://www.guidetothepoint.com/thepoint/cpplace/thread.asp?ForumID=2&TopicID=2520
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 34
A couple of points...
First of all, some people are complaining about the TTR system making the other ride lines longer. Personally, I find this a little hard to believe with any of the rides except possibly Mantis (after all, last Saturday was the first time I have seen Mantis with a full queue since 1996). I mean, look at it this way...when completely full, the Millennium Force queue holds about 3,600 people. That's three hours on Millennium Force or Disaster Transport; two and a half hours on Raptor, two hours on Magnum, or twenty minutes on Gemini. (Okay, so it's more like an hour on Gemini). On Saturday, Millennium Force still had a 1.5 hour wait, meaning that queue was still holding about 1,800 people, meaning that there were only 1,800 people elsewhere in the park who would have otherwise been in the Millennium Force queue. And half of those people were either in the ticket line (when it existed) or standing on the midway blocking traffic waiting for the Millennium Force queue to open. The long lines on the other rides are not caused by the TTR system; they are caused by it being summertime at Cedar Point.
Second, on the issue of people taking multiple tickets...I don't think Cedar Point considers people taking multiple tickets to be an abuse of the system, provided that such people stand in line for each and every ticket. Remember, this is not an opt-in system...this is a mandatory ticket system, and for a few people to obtain multiple ride tickets for the ride is no different from those same people getting off and getting back in line again. The purpose of the system is not to prevent people from taking multiple rides, but rather to enable people to ride without having to suffer the multi-hour waits. Unfortunately it seems to be better at accomplishing the former than it is at accomplishing the latter.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
First of all, some people are complaining about the TTR system making the other ride lines longer. Personally, I find this a little hard to believe with any of the rides except possibly Mantis (after all, last Saturday was the first time I have seen Mantis with a full queue since 1996). I mean, look at it this way...when completely full, the Millennium Force queue holds about 3,600 people. That's three hours on Millennium Force or Disaster Transport; two and a half hours on Raptor, two hours on Magnum, or twenty minutes on Gemini. (Okay, so it's more like an hour on Gemini). On Saturday, Millennium Force still had a 1.5 hour wait, meaning that queue was still holding about 1,800 people, meaning that there were only 1,800 people elsewhere in the park who would have otherwise been in the Millennium Force queue. And half of those people were either in the ticket line (when it existed) or standing on the midway blocking traffic waiting for the Millennium Force queue to open. The long lines on the other rides are not caused by the TTR system; they are caused by it being summertime at Cedar Point.
Second, on the issue of people taking multiple tickets...I don't think Cedar Point considers people taking multiple tickets to be an abuse of the system, provided that such people stand in line for each and every ticket. Remember, this is not an opt-in system...this is a mandatory ticket system, and for a few people to obtain multiple ride tickets for the ride is no different from those same people getting off and getting back in line again. The purpose of the system is not to prevent people from taking multiple rides, but rather to enable people to ride without having to suffer the multi-hour waits. Unfortunately it seems to be better at accomplishing the former than it is at accomplishing the latter.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
but it IS different, RideMan...there are only SO MANY tickets to go around..less than the number of people that can actually ride MF per hour on the old(better) queue system. someone getting 6 or 7 or 8 tickets is patently unfair to others who may want to ride before 8 pm. i said it before and i'll say it again..how would you feel if you had limited time in the park, went to get a ticket and the person in front of you got the last one for the day and already had 6 of them in his pocket?? i'd be pretty ticked and it woulldn't just be at that person, either...
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ride early, ride often!!!
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ride early, ride often!!!
Going back to skipping a trip to the Point. Let me compare a trip to CP to a not-so-pleasant experience my wife and I had last Sunday.
I made my first trip ever to SFO (I had never been to Geauga Lake either) with my wife for her company picnic. I wasn't disappointed as soon as I walked in, but it didn't take but 10 minutes. From several rides not running, to poorly produced magic shows, to dirty restrooms, to standing water, to immature crowds, to broken Skeeball alleys, to disappointing landscaping, to ... well, you get the point.
Now, tomorrow, my wife and I will head to CP. We will play on the best Skeeball alleys I've seen, ride world class roller coasters, take a spin on the Giant Wheel (which will likely actually be open), walk on the beach, dip candles at the Candle Shop, watch a professionally produced live show, walk down uncongested midways, and enjoy the atmosphere. These are all things that didn't happen at SFO. And this is just a small list.
I didn't pay to get into SFO on Sunday. If I ever go back, I certainly wouldn't pay to do so.
The moral of the story: CP may have TTR, but SFO isn't even one-tenth the park CP is. Even with TTR, Cedar Point is still the #1 amusement park on the planet.
* To be fair, I will say we were both impressed with the new WB children's area (Boomtown?). We both thought it beat Camp Snoopy hands down. Plus, thanks to some inept employees, we got a free ice cream cone!
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Cedar Point Virtual Midway
http://www.schmidty.com/cpvirtual
*** This post was edited by Gemini on 6/29/2000. ***
I made my first trip ever to SFO (I had never been to Geauga Lake either) with my wife for her company picnic. I wasn't disappointed as soon as I walked in, but it didn't take but 10 minutes. From several rides not running, to poorly produced magic shows, to dirty restrooms, to standing water, to immature crowds, to broken Skeeball alleys, to disappointing landscaping, to ... well, you get the point.
Now, tomorrow, my wife and I will head to CP. We will play on the best Skeeball alleys I've seen, ride world class roller coasters, take a spin on the Giant Wheel (which will likely actually be open), walk on the beach, dip candles at the Candle Shop, watch a professionally produced live show, walk down uncongested midways, and enjoy the atmosphere. These are all things that didn't happen at SFO. And this is just a small list.
I didn't pay to get into SFO on Sunday. If I ever go back, I certainly wouldn't pay to do so.
The moral of the story: CP may have TTR, but SFO isn't even one-tenth the park CP is. Even with TTR, Cedar Point is still the #1 amusement park on the planet.
* To be fair, I will say we were both impressed with the new WB children's area (Boomtown?). We both thought it beat Camp Snoopy hands down. Plus, thanks to some inept employees, we got a free ice cream cone!
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Cedar Point Virtual Midway
http://www.schmidty.com/cpvirtual
*** This post was edited by Gemini on 6/29/2000. ***
I can't believe anyone would skip going to CP because of the pass system. If MF weren't even there, with or without the pass system, I would still be at CP every chance I got!
Well, believe it, Tim. Many on this board are doing just that!
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Cedar Point Virtual Midway
http://www.schmidty.com/cpvirtual
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Cedar Point Virtual Midway
http://www.schmidty.com/cpvirtual
To the people like Scooter our there: I myself am greatly opposed to the TTR and I realize that you had your trip ruined... but getting mad at people who work the system to their advantage is not the right thing to do. You should be mad at CP, instead, because if it hadnt been for them and their poor planning and decision-making, you would have had a great trip, not because of the people who grab as many tickets as they can. I myself am going to CP tomorrow to check out the system, and I will try to work it to my advantage. But I am 100% on your side. CP has no excuse whatsoever for:
1) Poor judgement in thinking that a system like this was needed in the first place.
2) Poor planning while making up the system.
3) Poor implementation of the system.
4) A poor job of responding to our negative comments by not making any notion that they are even listening to us at all. Also by deleting the negative comments on their site.
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Times I have "Gone Full Force" on MF: 2
-SUPPORT THE ANTI-TTR MOVEMENT!-
1) Poor judgement in thinking that a system like this was needed in the first place.
2) Poor planning while making up the system.
3) Poor implementation of the system.
4) A poor job of responding to our negative comments by not making any notion that they are even listening to us at all. Also by deleting the negative comments on their site.
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Times I have "Gone Full Force" on MF: 2
-SUPPORT THE ANTI-TTR MOVEMENT!-
we are not skipping CP just because of TTR alone. we are doing so because of the way it is being handled...poorly and half @ssed at best. it is also because of the principle of the thing...our freedom to do as we choose, when we choose, has been taken away by this system. the system is being abused and exploited by a few who feel it is their right to do so, others feel that CP is saying that you must be amongst the "Chosen Few" if you want to ride the best ride in the park. also, the system is creating more problmes than it is solving, as there really was NO PROBLEM TO SOLVE in the first place. i do not wish to drive 300 miles only to be turned away from the best ride in the park. ain't gonna happen. i have the right to choose not to go back to any business for any reason. customers vote with their feet. i am voting with mine against CP And TTR until it is either A)eliminated or B) has all of the bugs worked out 200%. i have many places i will not give my business to for various reasons..but i never in my wildest dreams imagined that CP would EVER give me a reason...
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ride early, ride often!!!
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ride early, ride often!!!
and by the way, Najin, did you ever call them and ask about the status of TTR?? i cn't remember if you did or not and it may have been lost in the HUGE thread....
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ride early, ride often!!!
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ride early, ride often!!!
To extend Rideman’s statement about how fastpass isn’t making the other lines really long:
Worst-case MF queue time: 2 hours
MF Capacity (according to Jeff): 1300 pph
Worst-case people in MF queue: 2600 people
Now let’s say 2600 people are now in the midway, not in a queue. My estimate is 50% would be in line for Raptor, Mantis, or Magnum, and 50% would be somewhere else.
I’ll also assume that the same number will go to the queue of each of those three rides.
Number of people getting into queues: 1300
Additional people per queue:433
Mantis and Raptor capacity:1800 pph
Those people can be processed in 15 minutes
Magnum capactiy:2000 pph
Those people can be processed in 13 minutes
So in the absolute worst-case scenario, we’re looking at a 15-minute additional wait, tops. This is far away from the additional half-hour that people have been reporting!
But, HOPEFULLY, they won't do this for the other rides! Imagine not being able to ride ANYTHING from 2 to 8 PM unless you were lucky enough to get a pass!
Worst-case MF queue time: 2 hours
MF Capacity (according to Jeff): 1300 pph
Worst-case people in MF queue: 2600 people
Now let’s say 2600 people are now in the midway, not in a queue. My estimate is 50% would be in line for Raptor, Mantis, or Magnum, and 50% would be somewhere else.
I’ll also assume that the same number will go to the queue of each of those three rides.
Number of people getting into queues: 1300
Additional people per queue:433
Mantis and Raptor capacity:1800 pph
Those people can be processed in 15 minutes
Magnum capactiy:2000 pph
Those people can be processed in 13 minutes
So in the absolute worst-case scenario, we’re looking at a 15-minute additional wait, tops. This is far away from the additional half-hour that people have been reporting!
But, HOPEFULLY, they won't do this for the other rides! Imagine not being able to ride ANYTHING from 2 to 8 PM unless you were lucky enough to get a pass!
Someone in the previous thread said that the might put the system on all the major coasters. The idea of putting it on one attraction is ok. But on all the major attractions?? This is dumb. Disney has it on a few of the attractions that are likely to have the longest lines, like MF, not all the attractions that are likely to have people waiting. For the record, I am still agaist the ticketing system, but I am not going to boycot the park or the ride because someone else will just eat up my ticket.
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"the Force of the new Millennium is being felt by those who choose to seek it.
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"the Force of the new Millennium is being felt by those who choose to seek it.
It would really stink if they did it for all the major attractions. You might have the same hour time slot for 3 different coasters in 3 completely different areas of the park. What happens then...your're screwed. Picking and Choosing which is "more important" would be the trend.
It was bad enough on Wed. because I took a class sort of trip to the Point. We got there at about noon and we went over and tried to get MF tickets. Half of our group chickened out of even getting in the ticket line which moves all of the way through in about 5 minutes anyway. Well, when we got our tickets, the ride time was anywhere from 6-7 PM. The SOONEST I could ride was 6 and we were leaving at 7, so of course I went out of my way off of Raptor and jetted over to MF with the 2 other people that were smart enough to get tickets and we rode and were off in about 25 minutes. But that was it, ONE ride. I hope CP goes back to the "regular" system. I do agree, it does make you go way out of your way, I would have loved to hang around the front of the park w/ DT and BS, but I had to go BACK to the middle of the park to ride. PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!!!
*** This post was edited by MFistheBEST on 6/29/2000. ***
It was bad enough on Wed. because I took a class sort of trip to the Point. We got there at about noon and we went over and tried to get MF tickets. Half of our group chickened out of even getting in the ticket line which moves all of the way through in about 5 minutes anyway. Well, when we got our tickets, the ride time was anywhere from 6-7 PM. The SOONEST I could ride was 6 and we were leaving at 7, so of course I went out of my way off of Raptor and jetted over to MF with the 2 other people that were smart enough to get tickets and we rode and were off in about 25 minutes. But that was it, ONE ride. I hope CP goes back to the "regular" system. I do agree, it does make you go way out of your way, I would have loved to hang around the front of the park w/ DT and BS, but I had to go BACK to the middle of the park to ride. PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!!!
*** This post was edited by MFistheBEST on 6/29/2000. ***
Maybe if they do the TTR for other attractions it will have diffrent time slots, like MF is 1-2, Raptor is 1:15-2:15, Mantis is 1:30-2:30, ect... that way it could possibly distribute the MF crowds, and if you get 3 tickets for the same times, you won't miss any of them. But the question is, is CP smart enough to do this?
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Whats life if you never get to the point?
MF:22
www.angelfire.com/oh4/hurricane6
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Whats life if you never get to the point?
MF:22
www.angelfire.com/oh4/hurricane6
I bet they are losing some money from the Millennium Force queue vending machines.
Word around the 12 E water cooler is this:
Raptor, Mantis and POSSIBLY Power Tower are going to get the same deal as Millennium Force after the holiday weekend. Disaster Transport will POSSIBLY imply it only when the line stretches outside of the building. That would be anywhere over a 45 minute wait unless they open up some of the inside queues (which would make more sense).
Not written in stone yet.
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Dispatch Master, This is Transport one! I'm losing control, I'm losing control!
Word around the 12 E water cooler is this:
Raptor, Mantis and POSSIBLY Power Tower are going to get the same deal as Millennium Force after the holiday weekend. Disaster Transport will POSSIBLY imply it only when the line stretches outside of the building. That would be anywhere over a 45 minute wait unless they open up some of the inside queues (which would make more sense).
Not written in stone yet.
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Dispatch Master, This is Transport one! I'm losing control, I'm losing control!
Oh, and Scooter, I understand what your saying, but don't you think by Cedar Point letting people get more then one ticket is there way of making sure people get more then 1 ride a day? They probably think that its a way to get people from not complaning about only riding once, but the problem is theres people not getting any tickets at all. So all in all its really screwed up, and it HAS to be fixed. I'm not trying to argue with you and change your opinion or anything, I'm just trying to think of all the possibilites the system can and can not work, and what Cedar Points thinking is by running the system the way they are, and I hope the next time you go your able to ride and everything goes better for you.
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Whats life if you never get to the point?
MF:22
www.angelfire.com/oh4/hurricane6
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Whats life if you never get to the point?
MF:22
www.angelfire.com/oh4/hurricane6
I saw some CP workers selling pop up closer to the people when I was there too. So they're selling pop, but the machines and the rest of the queue seem to be a waste.
PS, Jeff, you should probably change your "Hitting every coaster in one day" strategy for MF. LOL
PS, Jeff, you should probably change your "Hitting every coaster in one day" strategy for MF. LOL
Well if they add this to other rides the intent is more or less clear isn't it?
They want people in the shops and not in the queues. They are trying to suck your every last penny while in the park.
They want people in the shops and not in the queues. They are trying to suck your every last penny while in the park.
In regards to skipping the Point, it is not because of "Ticket to Ride". It is because of principles. It is a boycott. I personally boycott things if they go against what I believe in.
Not having experienced TTR first hand, what I'm about to say is easier said than done. The only way I think that CP can implement a virtual queue system and make everyone happy is to make it optional, exactly like Disney's system. The queue is already designed for it. Normal queue is standby. Express lane behind DJ is TTR queue. All they have to do is to put a body at the bottom of the ramp where the two queues meet and they're done. The only problem is that the TTR queue is way too small so they'll probably have to break the tickets up to 30 or 15 minute blocks as opposed to the current 60 minute blocks. I hope to experience this joy sometime in the near future so I can form a clear opinion.
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Scott W. Short
sshort@mediaone.net
http://welcome.to/midwestcoastercentral
*** This post was edited by ShiveringTim on 6/29/2000. ***
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Scott W. Short
sshort@mediaone.net
http://welcome.to/midwestcoastercentral
*** This post was edited by ShiveringTim on 6/29/2000. ***
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