Steel Vengeance

Thanks for the detailed answer to Skyhawk’s question, GigaG...

It’s a shame those awesome Schwarzkopf coasters were nearly restraint-free. More would probably still exist if they had been built with a simple lap bar.

^^That's true (never ridden a Jumbo Jet, but I have ridden Tig'rr which is somewhat like it. Compared to Whizzer, Tig'rr is much snappier with its steep drops (which Whizzer lacks.) Whizzer does have sustained sections of positive g-forces, though. They're just very different rides.

As for restraints, considering that Star Flyers have an electrically locking seatbelt (two electrically locking seatbelts to be exact) and Whizzer and Tig'rr get away with a non-locking belt, I feel like there were other reasons those coasters were retired. Not sure what, though.

Fun fact - Jumbo Jet still operates today in Minsk, Belarus, with a new coat of paint too. Wonder if CP could buy it back someday... the ride, according to Wikipedia, had yearly ridership higher than almost anything at CP today, so assuming the operating procedures are fast enough it could probably handle the crowds.

From typing in the URL on the ride's station, it seems to be owned by some Russian ride broker that also claims to have some other large Schwarzkopfs available. (Enter link at your own risk.) However, it is not listed at their website, probably because it's out. Which makes me wonder... do these guys really have a shuttle loop and portable 3-loop coaster? Just seems fishy, but on the other hand they definitely seem to have Jumbo Jet.

http://karuseli.com/

Oh, those look cool. Did Schwarzkopf go defunct due to the founder jumping off the planet the year I was born? I think another reason they don't have many more operating is because of evacuation and safety concerns.

It’s incredible how the drawn out construction period of this coaster has completely made me lose the typical excited feeling I usually have for a new coaster during the winter months. I’m extremely hyped don’t get me wrong, but this coaster has lacked the typical exciting winter lead up to opening.

Your realize that this coaster is supposed to have the most airtime of any coaster ever built. Has been billed as the best coaster at CP after its completion? You'd rather see more hype in the offseason opposed to building a far superior coaster? I get that the offseason is hard to get though with the cold and early sunsets. You'd rather see a construction lapse video as opposed to a better coaster. Year and a half ago I would have rather seen Mean Streak stay. But I've gotten over that after seeing the construction first hand. Seeing what they've done to it. To me i'm more excited to ride this than I was any of the B&M's with the video's and construction time lapsed videos. I've seen first hand the construction of the coaster starting at the end of 2016 and then in 2017 the 2 weekends I visited in 2017. I hope it's somewhat close to what it's billed as being, the best coaster in the world! I don't see anything exciting about seeing them build handrails, steps, and the station. I'm sure most of the RMC crew is now working down south on the other RMC coaster they are going to open at our sister park. Maybe they have a construction time lapse you could watch!

I never said it took away the excitement of the actual ride. I just said I’ve missed the fun and excitement of offseason construction.

But yes, generally I enjoy watching a coaster develop through the off-season more than actually riding it. Banshee and Valravn are two examples of this.

So Steel Vengeance got Early Entry, as we all expected. But I'm curious to see how bad lines will be on an average day first thing in the morning.

Valravn and GateKeeper were definitely rides that the GP at the front gate could see and say "hey, that's a new ride, let's ride it". However, SV is next to impossible to see from the front entrance.

Obviously, anyone who knows about the ride beforehand, resort guest, or enthusiast would go to the Resort Entrance and immediately bolt there, but they may get their fix marathoning it during Early Entry, then move on to other rides later.

I've seen two ways the park will attempt to force the general crowd to the back to ride the new ride: the electronic sign at the front entrance advertising SV, and having Camp Snoopy be Early Entry this year instead of Kiddy Kingdom, which pushes families further back into the park. However, I'm not sure if it will be enough to match rides like Valravn, which had huge lines form at rope drop.

I think that SV in its opening year will have modestly long lines until the afternoon, then get packed.

Thoughts?

I don't know if you are a frequent visitor, but if you are, you were able to see the construction in person all of last season. Much better than construction photos or videos.

You're absolutely right, but the general crowds usually don't think about CP too hard. They would see the construction and say "hey, there's a new ride coming", but they might forget about it during the winter. Heck, most of them probably wouldn't even know what the ride actually is or what it's called until they get there. The best I could see is them seeing a TV ad for SV or see it on their social media feeds form their friends or something.

Enthusiasts like us know where to go, but from a psychological perspective, the impact of hearing about a new coaster at the back of the park isn't as much as seeing a new coaster at the front of the park (Valravn, GateKeeper, etc.)

Pete said:
I don't know if you are a frequent visitor, but if you are, you were able to see the construction in person all of last season. Much better than construction photos or videos.

I generally go 2 days a year and I did see Steel Vengeance halfway done. But I would rather not see a coaster being built in person because it gives a bigger sense of shock when I see it for the first time. Maybe you guys don’t agree but the forum interaction and speculation over the winter months during coaster construction is a lot of fun. Most of that came early with this coaster and there has been little to no winter discussion because there really isn’t anything to talk about until we start riding it.

Maybe it’s the designer in me but I enjoy the period before a ride is announced even more because I can run through ideas in my head and draw concepts that I think would fit. That’s super fun.

LightDark18 said:

I think that SV in its opening year will have modestly long lines until the afternoon, then get packed.

Thoughts?

I'm not too sure that this will be the case; while I never saw Maverick's morning lines when it opened in 2007, the lengthy line on the right and left sides of these 1991 Mean Streak POV screengrabs suggest that a lot of people knew about the new coaster in the back of the park and headed straight for it at park opening.

Granted, there's way more coasters in the park nowadays compared to 1991, but it is important to note that new coasters are new coasters, regardless of their park location, so lengthy lines are going to be inevitable on most days, regardless of time of day. Valravn was the same way in 2016, Maverick was (and still is) the same way in 2007, and SV will likely be the same way this year. And who knows? It may be possible that crowd patterns will reverse with the newest coaster being at the back of the park, so if anything lines may get shorter (relatively speaking, of course) as the day goes on. With all of this in mind (and considering the similar ride capacity to Valravn), I would probably expect to see a 2 hour wait for SV at the peak of an average day, and I wouldn't be surprised if it hits 3 hours at its peak on opening day like Valravn did. In any case, it certainly looks like it'll be worth the wait!

LightDark18 said:

You're absolutely right, but the general crowds usually don't think about CP too hard.

I love these discussions about "general public" lol. I think you are actually underestimating the "general public" in this statement. With social media, advertising, etc. you're going to see HUGE lines form. Yes, the public won't know all the stats and such like we do, but they will certainly be stampeding to the back of the park as fast as they can to ride Steel Vengeance. You should see how early the lines form down here in Orlando for Flight of Passage (Animal Kingdom's Avatar ride).

The General Public doesn't follow Cedar Point like we do, but they are a lot smarter than you're giving them credit for.

^Agreed. Everyone I work with at my winter job is "general public" yet as soon as I mention working at CP in the summer, most of them reply with some form of "I can't wait for Steel Vengeance" or "new mean streak"

Since I worked at Antique Cars and had a pretty good view of SV going up during the summer I'd overhear guests convos/speculations. It seemed like a good amount knew it was a new ride being built and we're excited, some were confused as to why said (unfinished) ride wasn't open and a small portion of guests who legit didn't even notice the steel track and/or said something about Mean Streak being torn down completely. I enjoyed hearing everyone's thoughts. Many would ask and I'd just have to say "you'll see soon enough!" All my family from Ohio and other places have heard about the new ride and are always asking me about it! So I'd say the GP knows! Side note, I'm so excited for SV!

I'm wondering more of how your average guest may perceive it, or whether it'll be more or less popular than Valravn (whose dive/brake gimmick was kind of a GP magnet.)

Even on announcement day, after seeing the animation, an uncle of mine who goes to CP a lot with his children, perceived Steel vengeance as just another "Rougarou." I wonder how many guests will associate it with Mean Streak, etc.

I'm excited. I've been on four RMCs now; Twisted Colossus, Goliath, The Joker and now... Lightning Rod! I just got on Lightning Rod two months ago and it was absolutely ridiculous from start to finish. The launch was surprisingly forceful. I expected a slightly more forceful drop (ala Goliath or Twisted Colossus) but it was still strong enough to pull some airtime, especially in the back seat. Following that drop you have a wave turn, one of two on the ride, that gives you some fun sideways airtime. The second wave turn is especially intense. Next you get an airtime hill followed by four ridiculous pops of airtime in a row. After repeatedly riding (no lines, woo!) my legs were extremely sore from the relentless airtime. Finally you have one last turn, again, surprisingly forceful (I keep using that word) This coaster, in my opinion, easily trumps anything at Cedar Point except for Maverick.

and... this coaster Cedar Point is building looks better in almost every way. The drop looks better. With the longer trains that first drop in the back seat is going to attempt to pull you to the depths of Hades. This coaster will have more wave turns, more airtime hills both big and small and sometimes outward facing, inversions (including a mini stall - if you've been on Wicked Cyclone, let us know how that element is), a longer ride time, it will interact with it's structure.. Taller, faster, longer, next to another elite coaster.

I haven't been this excited for a new coaster since Maverick.

I admit, Steel Vengeance is going to be awesome. As to what GigaG said, I think SV will probably blow Valravn straight out of the water. A lot of guests will probably associate it with Mean Streak because that coaster is 25 years old. If anything, I just see SV as Mean Streak dying, then coming back with a Vengeance! Honestly, imagine how wicked the night rides on this thing will be!

^I totally understand it'll be amazing, I've been on several RMCs. But my question is, will the GP see it that way, or will they just associated with Mean Streak?

I think all most people will have to do is look at SV to know that it is not a warmed over Mean Streak. Plenty of people were standing by the fence taking pictures and studying the ride. The track contrasts with the structure and stands out very well making the inversions, turns and drops very obvious. Also, the structure itself has been modified enough, especially the first hill, to make it seem like a much more spectacular ride.

I think some people will still continue associating it with mean streak, but not in the way I see it.