Steel Vengeance

THAT WAS PRICELESS !!!!!!! Will never forget the look on the Maintenance man's face when we were pointing at the chain-dog on the ground. Rick Heiser I think was his name. He shook his head when he seen it. :-) We gave the Mean Streak crew the signal to stop the lift. :-) I was hoping Cedar Point would hire GCI to re-track Mean Streak the way Knott's did with Ghost Rider. GCI did a GREAT JOB. And there is no mid-course break. The second half of Mean Streak could have been re-profiled to make it much more exciting and keeping the true wooden coaster experience.

OOPS!!!! I meant mid-course BRAKE :-)

I LOVE Great Coasters Inc and their Millennium Flyers but Mean Steak is just to big. RMC I-box all the way.

I’m not sure what the argument is here. We all know how it turned out.

No argument. It's about the true wooden coaster facing a slow death. Gravity Group could have been called in to re-track Mean Streak. The Voyage has over 6,400 ft. of track, Mean Streak over 5,400 ft. So Mean Streak isn't to big. Also look at coasters like Thunder Bolt and Jack Rabbit at Kenny Wood. Those coasters are WAAAAAAAY older than Mean Streak was :-) I think there would be a lot of unhappy coaster fans if Kenny would were to hire RMC to do I-Beam treatment on those classic wooden coasters.

Gravity Group wouldn’t do much, considering their coasters are known for getting incredibly rough in a short period of time.

^I believe that Mean Streak's track work around 2010-2011 was done by Martin & Vleminckx, who do a lot of construction for coasters designed by Gravity Group (as well as other coasters.) And that actually worked in terms of making the ride not be unbearably rough for the rest of its life.

However, a Voyage-type coaster tears itself up even faster than Mean Streak. Voyage is statistically not unlike Mean Streak in height and speed, but is longer and has some ridiculous elements that push the limits of the trains' turning ability - in fact, I believe Voyage has modified PTCs whose axles articulate more in roll than similar trains on other rides. It is a massive commitment for HW in terms of maintenance and retracking, and even then the park (which generally likes to keep their woodies running all-out) has reduced the length of the trains from 7 to 6 cars and uses the MCBR as a trim brake except during certain enthusiast ERTs.

Voyage is definitely a major commitment to keep running. Not only has the ride had the modifications that GigaG mentioned, but the steel supports have been taken down and rebuilt in some parts of the ride. Part of its issues are with the steel supports not having the same flex as wooden supports. This translates to the wood track taking a beating, even on the straight sections.

I keep wondering if its only a matter of time until it gets the RMC treatment.

I like a good wooden coaster as much as the next guy, but I wonder what’s happened to make most of them so rough and unrideable. Is it a maintenance issue? Do large park chains cut expenses by ignoring the constant upkeep required on woodies until it’s too late? Do they see these steel conversions as a way to provide a more thrilling ride without the time and trouble? Are/were rides like Voyage and Mean Streak too long and fast for their own good? How long will rides like Ghost Rider last before they’re uncomfortable again? And lastly, how does a ride like Phoenix stay as smooth and enjoyable as it is from year to year? Does it require and get constant care and attention from guys who know what they’re doing?

I don’t see this trend as the death of wooden coasters, necessarily, but maybe as the humane way to eliminate rides that (for whatever reason) are way past their prime long before their time. I rode Lightning Rod again just yesterday and I’m still amazed by how fast, thrilling, and comfortable it is. And I compare that to my last spin on Voyage, just a few weeks ago, that I prayed would end.

I really enjoyed my rides on MysticTimbers this season, and I wonder how it’s older sister in Kansas City is getting along? I also rode Thunderhead last night and it was just fine.
In other words, I’m not mad about the rides that are getting converted. As far as I’m concerned they deserve to go, and especially in Mean Streak’s case, the replacement will be far superior.

I think once a wood coaster goes over around 110 feet and maybe 55 MPH they become maintenance nightmares. Compare Blue Streak to some of the larger coasters. Blue Streak has been giving fun and smooth rides for most of it's 50 plus years. It is one of the better medium sized out and back coasters and gives a fun, thrilling, airtime filled ride. Once you start pushing the height and speed limits on a wood coaster you will run into problems.

Voyage is a maintenance commitment but HW likes their woodies and the ride is generally well-liked, even if it is violent.

Some traditional woodies have turned out well. I haven't heard many complaints about Wodan at Europa, which is in its fifth season. It's about 130 feet tall and goes about 62mph.

And yes, large corporate parks tend to be a bit less focused on long-term woodie maintenance. CF typically does it a bit better than SF, but both companies have a history of trimming and re-profiling woodies to reduce maintenance costs. Even Holiday World has neutered Voyage to an extent.

I think The Beast is as about as good as you're going to get with wood coasters that don't get worse over time. As Pete said, 110ft, 55mph is about the best you will get. I think GCI will be the big wood coaster maker or RMC with topper tracks if you want true wood. Mystic Timbers is great, I would like to see CP get a GCI one of these years.

The Beast is hardly the pinnacle of wooden roller coasters. It certainly hasn’t gotten worse over time,it’s always sucked.

I have to get to KI next year and ride and a still fairly fresh and new Mystic Timbers.

Apparently Alan Schilke has said to people at IAAPA that the first drop of Steel Vengeance is technically beyond vertical at 90.1 degrees.

^Any other interesting details? Did he say how tall the "top hat" (first large hill, formerly the first fan turn) is?

beyond vertical would be less than 90 degrees, wouldn't it?

90 degrees is straight down.

89 degrees would be beyond vertical.

Maybe he meant 89.9 degrees or .1 degree beyond veritcal?

0° is flat. 90° is straight down. If you continue that same arc, >90° would be beyond vertical. Maverick, for example, is beyond vertical and is measured as 95°.

I couldn’t tell you anything else. My friend just said that he mentioned the drop angle.

They released an update:

"The whole theme around this coaster is steel on wood."

Pretty much every RMC....