Pay Rate for 06

All this talking about rubbing raw reminds me of a not so fun experience my ATL had near the beginning of July. I don't think softer toilet paper would have helped much though.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......Wow that is all I have to say about this for some wierd reason I decided to read this entire thread and it was an interesting one. Now after reading everything I feel the necessity to chime in with my 2-3 cents.

Penny number 1. Ok everyone complains about their living accomadations and frankly I must dissagree. I have lived in the commons dorms for the past three and a half years(I lived in cedars for a month and almost committed suicide). With the exception of the first month I would get back to the dorms between 11pm and midnight every night. Normally I would relax with my free aol for about 30 mins, check my email, say hi to people on aim, and then go to bed. I spent 90% of the time in my dorm sleeping. So now, why on earth would I want to spend twice as much for the little that I use my room. I agree that they could use cable internet. I know it is possible because one of my friends who lived in commons apartment 902 this past season had cable internet it was really cool. Other than that who the **** cares. If I wasnt working, I was relaxing in the park, out of state, or somewhere else in sandusky. If there was a new apartment option 70 bucks a week 2 people per room 4 rooms I would definatly not do it. I am content with my 32.60 per week. I know for a fact after living in an apartment that It costs about that much per week for me to keep my A/C running 24/7. That plus the phone line, the small amount of tv that I watch, and the power that I use for my computer and tv I am getting my money's worth. No offense to anyone but if you spend all your off time in your room you need to get out more.

Penny number 2. For thoes of you blaming Kinzel for our problems I dont think it is his fault. I am sure if you brought problems that you have had to him he would address them. Kinzel is a nice guy and a reasonable one at that. My friend got screwed and ended up with 8 points because someone in the office screwed up. He had a doctors apointment and afterwards he was not capable of doing his job untill the next day. After fighting it with the dept he got an apointment to see Kinzel. He explained the situation to Kinzel and his points were expunged from his file. He is a nice and reasonable guy, however I do believe that the reason that the problems arent being solved is because they arent being brought to the attention of the proper individual. He is a busy Man and has alot on his plate so if the park is running smoothly, he has no reason to think that his managers are not doing their job, or that there is anything wrong.

and penny number 3? The toilet paper. Wow some people I just dont get. Ive used the "one ply" stuff that they have at cp pretty much all my life. I guess my Arse is just not as sensitive as yours. But its freekin toilet paper I had no problems using it at cedar point, and I have no problems using it now. It's cheaper and it gets the job done. Everyone needs to stop their freekin B******'

Ok I'm done. *** Edited 12/14/2005 6:52:50 PM UTC by dougfromniu***

dougfromniu said:
Penny number 1. Ok everyone complains about their living accomadations and frankly I must disagree. I have lived in the commons dorms for the past three and a half years(I lived in cedars for a month and almost committed suicide). With the exception of the first month I would get back to the dorms between 11pm and midnight every night and normally I would relax with my free aol for about 30 mins check my email say hi to people on aim and go to bed. I spent 90% of the time in my dorm sleeping now why on earth would I want to spend twice as much for that I agree that they could use cable Internet I know it is possible because one of my friends who lived in commons apartment 902 this past season had cable Internet it was really cool. but other than that who the **** cares.

Ok well during the pre-season I spent most of my time in my apartment (I was in 902B by the way, who is your friend I probably knew them?) there just really wasn't all that much to do after a 9-5 day, except get to know the other people, and we did most of tat in the apartment. After the park opened and I was doing O-C everyday then I mostly crashed in the apartment. Once the hours settled down some I found I was mostly working nights and except for the rare day off (which I just wanted to spend chilling, didn't want to really go out or anything. Of course we had broadband so I spent a lot of time on the comp.) I spent it either in my room or other people's rooms.

I have not LIVED in anywhere but the apartments, but I had friends that lived in just about all the other places, as well as a few who lived off point entirely. And from what I have seen, and they tell me, most people prefer the commons dorms. I wanted an apartment because I wanted to be able to cook my own meals, a lot cheaper than eating out all the time and better meals too.

I still think I would have preferred to live in an apartment over dorms, but that is just me. Some people really like the dorms at Cedars and Gold, even though I can't see why, but it comes down to personal preference. If you don't like it you can always go somewhere else.

Thats my .02 :)

dougfromniu said:
penny number 2. For thoes of you blaming Kinzel for our problems I dont think it is his fault. I am sure if you brought problems that you have had to him he would address them. Kinzel is a nice guy and a reasonable one at that. . . . He is a nice and reasonable guy but I dont think that many of the problems that people have are being addressed because they arent being brought to his attention. He is a busy Man and he has alot on his plate so if the park is running smoothly he has no reason to think that his managers are not doing their job or that there is anything wrong.

I mentioned in an earlier post that most of the complaints are not actually being directed at management. People just seem to gripe and complain to each other but no-one actually just goes to management about it and asks for them to fix it.

I did see that a few times this year when during the manager-employee meetings some things were brought up, like the condition of the parking lot in both commons and EVC, locks on the bathroom doors, faulty power and other devices in the dorms, and they did actually start to work on them

So management just needs to hear about this stuff directly, not through second, or third, or fourth, ect, hand. *** Edited 12/14/2005 6:26:27 PM UTC by Morté615***

Doug, you made my argument for me. You said it yourself...you would have committed suicide if you had been forced to live in Cedars. I'm not saying all housing is bad. But, Cedars and Gold are WAY past their useful life.

And, it is entirely Kinzel who has decided not to build more off-point housing quicker to make way for demolition of those two structures. In 1995 Cedars was an embarassment. Now, 10 years later, it is still open. How it passes fire inspection each year is, frankly remarkable.

I can't really delve into all of your thoughts because there are too many run-on sentences. But, Kinzel is a decent guy who should have placed a higher level of importance on employees...particularly in the area of housing.

Chief I edited my post the best I could to correct the runons and errors.

Sorry my grammar sucks but hey, AutoCad doesnt require it so I could care less.

-Doug-

Ok, I started the toilet paper thing...and UMMM hello it was a joke people chill OUT! A LITTLE HUMOR GOES A LONG WAY ...

S

It was a funny joke too. Don't let people that lack sense of humor stop you from joking around. If you do I just might have to pull a couple jokes at the expense of you. ;)

is it true that valley fair's pay rate is higher than cp?

Short answer yes.

Proof

http://www.valleyfair.com/employment/wagesbenefits/

how is the pay rate higher there when we do more business?

http://www.worldsoffun.com/about_wof/employment.html

They make $7 + $1 per hour bonus.

As for why, Who knows?

JuggaLotus said:
Single-ply toilet paper should be illegal under the 8th amendement.

Comedian John Fox has a joke about...Oh nevermind.

My guess is most of the VF employees are locals. And I guess the unemployment rate is much lower in that area. I'm thinking the 400 + plus on site beds are taken by sups and internationals. But that's just a guess.

Chief Wahoo said:
A few corrections/comments:

It isn't that Cedar Point managers don't care. Most of them care very deeply and most of them would say that yes, the pay is suspect, housing is still in dire need of upgrades and more could be done for the seasonal employees. The issue comes down to Cedar Fair powers that be, namely Mr. Kinzel. He ultimately decides where/how monies are spent. (Yes, there is a Board but they are pretty well in his pocket.)

The delay between the tear down of the old employee Rec center and the building of the new one is directly attributable to Mr. Kinzel.

I sat in on a "task force" back in the 90's that was responsible for making recommendations to executive management regarding recruiting/hiring shortages. We came up with many ideas which were largely ignored. The task force wrote a memo to Mr. Kinzel asking him to reconsider the suggestions and the author of that letter was given a pretty good lashing that got around to everyone else pretty quickly.

So yes, complaints about pay have been around for years...but they are legitimate complaints. There has been no real change to the bonus structure since the mid-90's and they pay has, at best, kept up with the service industry. But, if you claim to be "THE BEST..." and you charge prices/room rates that are in the top tier then your guests should expect more from the employees.

A lot of studies have been done that suggest pay is a minimal factor in an employees overall satisfaction with a job. But those studies involve full time employees that have benefits above and beyond their wage. Insurance, vacation, 401Ks, etc. A seasonal employee has none of that.

So, what keeps the seasonal employee happy?

Pay check. (We have established that the hourly wages are no better than your local mall.) With the bonus kids can earn more but that bonus system is not unique anymore. Lots of service jobs are doing it now.

Housing. While new dorms have been added, the fact of the matter is that a large group of employees are still "living" in Cedars and Gold and that is, frankly, pathetic.

Treatment by Management If you, yourself, are not a seasonal manager then you probably have limited contact with full time management. Most full time managers that I know do an admirable job. But, a typical employee's view of management usually comes from the seasonal supervisors who are not much older or experienced than they are and who don't make a lot much more money for the added responsibility. Add to that that everyone is working 6 days a week, 60 hours and more and everyone is tired.

Extra Activities You get to go in the park for free. Nice for the first few weeks but that gets tiresome for the average, non-enthusiast employee. There is the beach and Soak City plus the Employee Relations activities. Not bad vs. working at the Gap back home...I'll grant you that.

Edit: (I didn't want to get timed out.)

The employees do have seasonal status which in the State of Ohio exempts Cedar Point from paying overtime so long as the employee doesn't average 40 hours per week for X number of weeks in the year. That is why many of the part time (yet basically year 'round) employees are "laid off" for a few months during the winter time.

I said it before, this isn't strictly a Cedar Point issue. It is an industry issue. But, Cedar Point could be blazing the way in the industry because they have resources many parks do not. First and foremost is the land/facilities they have for housing. The off-point accommodations are improving (though even the Bayside Apartments are aged). But, they could easily build more for the employees, getting everyone off point and providing for some nicer amenities. Disney has terrific housing for employees. You pay more but you get what you pay for. Beautiful pools, internet access, tennis courts, volleyball, condo-style accommodations, etc.

Finally, if the industry (or the Cedar Fair's of the industry) want to place quality service as one of their top priorties then they need to treat their employees in as high regard as their next captial purchase.

If anyone gave a better example of that than Six Flags in Ohio then I haven't seen it. They built great rides but the people stayed away in droves. Why? Because the service was lousy, the cleanliness was terrible, and you got a sense that the employees didn't care. Poor service (and admittedly some bad management) brought a company to it's knees. And after the comments that have been made in the past year or so...Cedar Fair should be weary.
*** Edited 12/7/2005 7:48:19 PM UTC by Chief Wahoo***

The bonus in 1980 was 25 cents an hour. The base wage was $3.00 an hour. Inflation adjusted I would say the wage is lower now....

they could at least increase it to $7 but that aint going to happen anytime soon

I'm sure that there's a higher minimum wage in wherever Valley Fair is.

Minimum Wage in Minnesota is $6.15. Ohio is, ironically enough, $4.25 apparently.

I believe that the minimum wage in Ohio is $5.15. It may be $4.75, but I am pretty sure it is $5.15. Believe me, I made minimum wage at my first job for 6 months, and it is not alot of money.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm is where I got my data from.

It may be incorrect.