Pay Rate for 06

Calypso said:

2 ply quilted toilet paper

Dude, I went to Meijer and bought my OWN toilet paper. Charmin Ultra! And I thought people would be laughing at me when I went into the bathroom with my own roll, but they didnt, they were Jealous! It was a good investment on my behalf, a few extra dollars for comfort and knowing that you will never go into the bathroom and find that none of the stalls have any toilet paper...

Offering a nicer facility at a higher price isn't a bad idea. That is what I had at college. I paid more to live in the 21+ housing that permitted 24 hour guests, alcohol, etc. Plus there were less roommates and nicer accommodations.

The problem, in my opinion, is that Mr. Kinzel doesn't value the employees like he values his rides. He pays lip service to them but where rubber meets the road he doesn't support it with dollars in terms of facilities, pay, etc. Will the person who comes in behind him? I don't know. Again, I think all amusement parks are going to have to look harder at this issue (even Disney) as new rides aren't drawing the crowds like they previously did.

Saying Gold is nice by comparing it to Cedars isn't saying much. I have a hammock hanging between two trees that is nicer accommodations than Cedars.

Morté615 said:

Chief Wahoo said:
The barbed wire (while intimidating) isn't there to keep you in...it is to keep others out. There are a bunch of sickos out there and 1,000 college aged kids in one place is a heck of a target.

I don't think Cedar Fair is malicious to it's employees or even treats them poorly. But, I do think they are no better than average and with that they are getting average (or less) when it comes to recruiting. (I know there are many exceptions...but I'm talking on a whole.)

OK I agree that security is actually a good thing, (and yes I know I was the first one to post about the outrages security) but more of what I am thinking is the rules that they have in housing.

No non employees after Midnight (I think it should be 2am, which is quiet time, or even give them 24 hours)

No Alcohol other than small amounts of beer (OK I can kind of see this one, they don't want people getting trashed and then trashing the place)

There are others but right now I can't think of any (I know, I know, that makes it seem like I really don't have an argument, well I do I just can't think of it right now)

Also the amount of security in Cedars and Gold is actually more than you might think, because to even get to those places means going through the toll booths (and those are manned 24/7 and you have to have a reason to go through) and during the times the park is open the housing supervisors are pretty diligent, as well as security making multiple stops throughout the day.

Where as Commons is right off the main road and anyone can walk right up to it and try to get in. I do know that even with the fence and barb wire, it is still easy to get in to Commons. I have seen people slip through the fence (at one of the extra gates, it sags open enough to slip through) and they have full run of the place. And leaving is easy, just walk right out the front gate.

And I agree that Cedar Point is not purposely malicious to its employees but I think they just either don't know or don't care so much about their living conditions. That or they just can't seem to see the benefit of having employees who are comfortable both while on the job and off.

The barbed wire is needed. I know of a couple of guys from Sandusky that were living in the commons apartments.

They didn't go OVER the fence, they went through it. There are a few places where you can go right through some chinks in the fence.

And you can have the same amount of security without having to have barbed wire, look at any high-end hotel or apartment building. They usually have high fences that also provide privacy.

It's possible but I would think pretty expensive. *** Edited 12/8/2005 11:11:05 PM UTC by Morté615***

I drank just as much as anyone else at Louie's and elsewhere and I never had a problem with the CPPD. Once again if your not acting like an idiot, nothing happens. If you want to scream late at night, blast your music, wrestle on the floor, fall down drunk, start a fight, steal someones stuff, or act like your from the getto you should expect to hear from them.

Otherwise they sit at the front gate, in the common's store and in the parking lot minding their own business.

If I did any of that stuff I listed at home (Chicago suburbs), I would expect to see the police also. Granted it would take a couple minutes for them to show up.

As much as I loved working at Cedar Point these last two summers, I just really can't do it anymore. $6.25 just won't cut it, there were so many rumblings about a pay raise this past summer and I knew I was expecting to much, but it was just a big let-down to see the same old $6.25 in the e-mail.

The biggest let-down was the protection for your stuff in the rooms. Besides the park, maybe the waterpark, and the mall and the bar/club scene, what else is there to do in Sandusky? I brought up my X-Box, digital camera, Nintendo-DS, and t.v. and movies this past summer, because honestly I'm not into the whole drinking/bar scene, and that's about the only thing to do after the park closes. Well I went to work on Friday evening, came back and found over a 1,000 dollars in items stolen out of my locked room and my locked locker.

When I went to talk to the housing manager I believe her name was Julia, about it she treated me like a pile of well.. ****. Saying it's my fault for having my stuff stolen. Well after further research and talking to the head manager of housing, the metal slide bars that keep the room from being busted into by credit cards were to have been installed on all the doors long prior to the breaking in of my room.

I was disheartened to hear all of this, and none of my stuff was ever found. It's just hard to want to go back to CP. I'm going to miss all my friends and the good times, but I'm still looking for a job after coming back from working Halloweekends. Oh well, such is life.

I don't know about everyone else but given the option between Cedar Point's housing at $32/wk or Disney's housing at $70/wk. I'd take Disney's housing.

Disney keeps their facilities well maintained. They are all apartment style with 2 people per bedroom, 1-4 bedrooms per apartment. They include a full size refridgerator, microwave, oven, dishwasher, dishes, pots, pans, etc. You get basic cable and internet access. Each apartment complex has a pool, hot tubs, volleyball court, basketball court, and fitness facility. You drive up to a security booth, show your housing ID and drive right up to your building.

Disney actually makes money on their employee housing, something I dont know if I agree with but it gives them an incentive to put some capital into it.

Perhaps this is something Cedar Point could consider at least as an option in the future. They could justify the capital expense based on a 7 year or 10 year return plan.

In return for the higher costs, they could offer employees apartment style living with 2 people per bedroom. Give them a fully equipped kitchen and decent furniture. Add high speed internet access (wired or wireless) and maybe some nicer recreation facilities such as a volleyball court or fitness facilities.

I realize that rent would become a larger portion of your weekly income, perhaps as much as 15-20%, but in return you would have much nicer living facilities.

And I for one would be more than willing to pay a higher price. Especially since if I go back I will spend my first checks on getting an apartment.

It all comes back to Cedar Point wanting to be nice or help out the employees. If they will make money on it, I'm sure the executives will jump on it. But I highly doubt they will do anything like disney. At disney, they have air conditioned break areas all over their park. Their employees are treated like gold compared to the way cedar point treats their employees. Even if disney is only paying them 7 bucks an hour, they treat them well and it shows. Sure disney is an all year business and that makes a differents on the revenue that is brought in by the company. My point is Disney knows how to accomodate to their employees. They offer the nice apartments with cable and internet, which is becoming more of a necessity then a luxury these days. Cedar Point offers small damp cinder block rooms with 3 other people. Sure there is cable in the rooms but i'd rather have a nicer room with a kitchen then cable. I just don't see Cedar Point doing anything like disney. Cedar Point management cares more about themselves and making money then their seasonal employees.

I recall many references to Disney in training. The problem is that Cedar Point wants Disney employees but doesn't want to spend the Di$ney Dollar$.

It's tough being an exceptional employee in a place that makes me feel barely human.

<edit>

I forgot to add, Disney does treat their employees better. I can attest to that indirectly. *** Edited 12/10/2005 3:38:45 AM UTC by ForgottenEE***

Correct me if im wrong...but doesn't disney only offer housing to the college program employees?

It is true that Disney only offers housing for College Program and International employees, but Disney has a different employee base than Cedar Point does. They use College Program and International employees to fill in the gaps of their local employees.

From what I understand, Disney employs about 4,000 people in the College Program, about the same number as the total seasonal employment at Cedar Point. Disney recruits from around the country for these positions and hold them to the highest Disney standards. In return, they offer similar pay to Cedar Point ($6.40/hr) and great living conditions similar to many mid-range apartments for $70-80/wk.

Cedar Point could easily do the same, recruit 4,000 top notch college aged employees to come to Sandusky and work for 4-6 months. Hold them to high standards and give them an excellent experience.

As for Cedar Point's ability to make money on newer apartments with better ammenities, just look at Disney.

4 bedroom apartment leases at $67/wk.
4 bedrooms x 2 people per bedroom x $67/wk. = $536/wk
$536 x 4 weeks = $2144 per month per apartment

Figure that a brand new 3-4 bedroom apartment would rent for around $800-1000/mo., and that is with the landlord making money. Add all utilities, maintenance, cable, internet access, etc. will add up to another $300-400/mo.

Disney is making $600-900/mo above and beyond what a typical apartment would bring in. Even figuring the Cedar Point's apartments would only be occupied 6 months out of the year, they would still make a good return on the investment, not to mention the effect it would have on CPs recruiting, employee morale, and the overall indirect effects on guest service. *** Edited 12/10/2005 5:19:21 AM UTC by RidePhoto101***

Disney trains their employees better...and has better better facilities/resources...but I don't think they treat their employees better than Cedar Fair and I can attest to that directly.

And, there are some reasons why:

Disney has a ton of money...they can afford to shell out big money for pricey apartments. Additionally they collect revenue on those apartments 12 months a year instead of 3 or 4. Now, that doesn't mean I don't think Cedar Point should do the same. I think they should suck it up and do it for the long term value but that is where I differ from Mr. Kinzel.

Disney is open year 'round. As such, they can take their time training their employees. If I remember right I think I had a total of five days of training before I was sent out on the attraction by myself. That included 2 days of Disney University getting to know the inside-outs of the company and 3 days at the attraction. (Part of that was memorizing a 12-minute spiel but they made sure you had it before you were on your own.) Cedar Point, while training is important, does have a need to rush the employees through it.

Again, I don't think the above reasons should give Mr. Kinzel (or whoever follows him) a pass. I think they should treat their employees as well (if not better than) their next capital addition.

That means improved housing, improved recreational opportunities, improved wages, etc.

But, until he/they can get it into their heads that their employees are just as important as the coasters (if not more so) I don't see any significant changes.

Chief,

You have many valid points. Do you still work at WDW? What is/was your role? When I was there last, the shuttle driver we had a time or two was less than enthusiatic about his employer. I was suprised to hear that from him, a unionized worker.

MrScott

How Cedar Point treats their employees doesn't come from the top. I've had nothing but good experinces with upper management. I don't take any crap from them like middle management does. Dick Kinzel is a nice guy. That is untill a manager goes overbudget...

Most employees start wanting to just quit. Later in the season the usual "you'll lose your bonus" line comes out. Nearing the end of my first summer, I started playing a little game. I would tell TL's, sups , and managers about the funniest going away gag I could pull just to see if they would pull out that line. Out of 15 or 20, only one person didn't give me that line.

If an employee is exceptionally unhappy, they should be free to go. Cedar Point plays the bonus game and burns them.

Except the bonus seems to be the only thing keeping MANY people and if they were all free to leave near the end of the year then the park would be in much worse condition.

Think SFMM except with more rides closed.

I would have to agree with ForgottenEE regarding my run-ins with Mr. Kinzel. Every time I have passed him in the park or talked to him he has been incredibly nice and always seemed to be in a good mood, although sometimes a bit hurried.

At the same time though it is left to the planning committee to decide what capital projects are going to get the green light. It is ultimately left to them to decide when/if they will ever build new housing and/or recreation facilities for employees. Because they are organized as a limited partnership, any investment they make must be justified by a return to the shareholders within a relatively short period of time.

I don't even think we really need things like pools, hot tubs, etc. at CP because unlike Disney we have free access to Soak City less than 5 minutes away. Disney employees have to pay (reduced rate) to go to Typhoon Lagoon or Blizzard Beach. Asking for things like pools or hot tubs or tennis courts might be pushing it but I think asking for new housing/apartments with two people per room is reasonable.

I never said Mr. Kinzel wasn't a nice guy. He is a nice man, has good family values, and is a man of faith. But, just because he is a nice guy doesn't mean he is immune to criticism. If he had the same enthusiasm for his workforce as he does/did for his next big ride then Cedar Point would likely be making Disney look bad in all aspects of operation.

I worked for Disney in the early 90's, just on the college program. But, I still have close ties to the company. When I was there I was an attractions host and, as a College Program employee, was about as low on the ladder as you can get.

Yes, there are plenty of Disney employees who complain about management but when you have 60,000+ employees, some of them are bound to be unhappy. The difference is that many, if not most, of their employees in your typical theme park jobs have something the Cedar Point seasonals don't: benefits. That is the "bonus", if you will, of Disney.

I don't think the CP bonus is a bad thing...but it might need some updating. I knew plenty of employees that left with minimal time on their contract and walked away from $1,000 or more. Crazy, yes...but it happened.

20 years ago it was no big thing to get used to Cedars or Gold. They were old, yes...but not much different than a typical college dorm. Today, that isn't the case. Colleges are doing all types of things to attract kids to stay on campus. Less roommates, nicer facilities, hard-wired rooms, etc. So, when they come to CP for the summer they are really stepping into the past with high expectations that cannot be met.

Sure, kids can go to Soak City on their days' off but what would it really cost the company to put a pool/hot tub type of complex over in the Bayside/Commons area? Not all that much in the big picture yet it would go a long way...in my opinion...of improving things for the staff. Mr. Kinzel wouldn't see it on the bottom line but he might see it in more satisfied employees.

Apparently, Mr. Kinzel has never read my signature.
*** Edited 12/12/2005 1:56:13 PM UTC by Chief Wahoo***

If there was a pool or hot tub in commons... I wouldnt use it. Not after seeing how disgusting some of the people who live there are. Plus, they'd probably leave it uo to us to clean it! ;)

What she said.