News: 2007 Season Passes on sale September 22

You're assuming the abuse is that low and your numbers are merely guesses. They have the hard data and that's the decision they thought was best. Six, twelve months from now they might decide to do it another way. But right now, they apparently feel that what they gain (financially or otherwise) is more than they will lose. You're acting like this is an open and shut case with only one logical conclusion, but you're failing to see everything that is at play.

Well, the good news is that the design for the Maxx Pass is not set yet, so there is still a chance that they will leave space on the card for a half a dozen parking endorsements for the non-Paramount ("Luddite") parks. That would allow them to solve the problem without having to invest in new technology right away.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Has anyone tried writing a letter to Cedar Point officials explaining how this is a bad decision? I would like to, but I want it to get to the right people. Does anyone know the best method?

I too had the parking on my season pass, but I was not the only one out of my group of friends that had it; many times, we had at least two people with parking passes in one car. We lease our cars, so we alternate driving between 4 different cars to keep down on mileage. On top of that, we have some friends that work at CP and they get a free parking pass. They have said that all we have to do is let them know and we can borrow their car to get in. They offered it in the past, but it was easier to just pay the extra cash and have it on our pass. Now that that is gone, I am considering taking up the offer. Because of this one decision, not only did they lose my $50, but my other friends', and I'm sure many others' $50 as well. It is a poor business decision on all parts. They should be considering ways to draw people in...its everything in the park that makes them the money anyway.
As far as GL goes, I'll probably go once, but not the 5 times I went this year with the $10 add-in. I thought they wanted to increase attendance there...
I have not yet purchased my pass for next year, and it is now up in the air...not because of money, but just principle. This is an inconvienience for me and everyone else that just wants to go spend their money and have a good time at the park.

Someone a few pages back (kirk06?) mentioned the expiration dates on passes being 3/31--stated right on the pass in black and white.

Here's my big issue (besides the new parking one, which also irritates me as someone who drives 220 miles round trip and prefers to split the 10 or so annual trips between two vehicles: one a lease, the other owned):

If the pass expires 3/31/07 and I can't redeem my 2007 Maxx Pass until the middle of April (assuming standard pass redemption periods are still in play), where does that put me if I'm in SoCal and decide to visit Knott's on April 1?

Apparently, SOL. The pass expiring on 3/31 has been in place for several years now, and this stupidity has always puzzled me. Make the previous year's pass expire on 4/30 to provide the requisite year-round coverage that people would expect. It's not like the home park on the pass (CP) is ever open that early.

Since I decided to edit the message: my other beef: apparently, the 2007 Maxx Pass is STILL not universal. It gets scanned at your home park, but then you still need to visit Guest Relations at all other parks to gain access. If it's the ONLY thing Six Flags parks get right, it's this--any SF season pass can be presented at any SF main gate. No separate procedures, no special place to go. The 1970's approach that continues to remain in place for things like this really annoy me (as it does many others, as evidenced by this thread which has, at time, digressed into a "the Cedar Fair IT infrastructure is a total joke" rant).

John *** Edited 10/8/2006 4:44:01 PM UTC by Michigan Man***

where does that put me if I'm in SoCal and decide to visit Knott's on April 1?

You have two options, and either should work. First, if you are a renewing passholder, you can renew by mail, and you'll have the new pass quite a bit earlier---it should arrive before April.

The second option is to call KBF guest relations before your trip, and explain the situation to them. They will check with CP to make sure you've purchased a pass, and you'll get comped in.

We did this when we were in California in 2004. My son turned three in late fall '03, so didn't have an '03 CP season pass. We were at Knott's in Feburary of '04---we had purchased him a pass certificate for '04, but obviously hadn't processed it yet. The Knott's and Cedar Point people exchanged whatever information they needed, and when we went to guest relations, we handed them three passes plus a copy of an email message explaining the situation from CP, and they handed us four tickets.

It took a couple phone calls, but it worked out no problem. Honestly, I thought it was incredibly nice of them, because technically they didn't have to comp my son into the park.

So, while there are legitimate things to complain about, this probably isn't one of them.

I personally will buy a season pass next year. I don't know which one yet, either a Maxx or a regular. Now I just wanted to mention one thing about the parking sticker issue. There is still time before next season begins that they can bring this back. I'm sure Cedar Fair wants to attract people, but they just spent a whole bunches of Millions of Dollars aquiring Paramount Parks. Now I think they could've left the regular admission alone and the regular parking lot charge at $9.00. So what I'm trying to say is if they get enough complaints through letters, e-mails, phone calls they'll change something. I trust Cedar Fair and Cedar Point and will still continue to keep coming to the park.

I will, too, I'd just appreciate having the prices left the same. Nonetheless, if I end up with at least a CP season pass next year I will happily go as frequently as possible. Its just sad that their flagship park wasn't able to notice any real spikes in attendence, it could just be that they failed to properly get the word out. I will do my part next year where possible to bring people down with me, and we all should continue to do so.

MWHINVA said:
If I am not mistaken, Paramount Parks allowed pass members to have parking on each pass that would allow the pass to be scanned ONCE per day. Either the paking booth attendant did not pay attention when the pass was scanned (thinking something was wrong with the scanner) or this person in the van had parking and did not use her pass at the booth, so she hopped into the other car to use her pass as well.

Do you consider this fraud?

Just an FYI about Paramount parks. Went to PKD this past weekend and there were a few interesting things to mention.

#1 - $10 to park. You can enter and exit as many times as you'd like in a day with that $10. You hand the slip back to the attendant when you return and they scan it again and hand a new one back to you. There is most certainly a time period in which you can scan it again. The slip shows the last time you had the parking pass re-scanned and the attendant checks it before scanning it again.

#2 - If anyone is getting their Maxx Pass from PKD to save the $35 you can have your picture taken this fall and they will issue a temporary pass until April of next year, when you'll have to either make another trip back there to get your 2007 one or you can send them the temporary one and they'll mail you the new one. Due to the fact they already have your picture on file.

The thing I found most interesting is that the Paramount passes will not have your picture on them. They keep your pic in the database and when it's scanned at the booth it comes up on their screen to verify the passholder. We spoke with the Director of Marketing, Ed Kuhlmann, who verified the fact that all Cedar Fair parks will have at least one ticket booth next year with this system in place for the Paramount pass holders, and the fact you'll be able to send your temporary passes in for the regular ones as soon as they have the new cards in. I'd suggest sending them some sort of certified mail where you can track the progress and/or require a signature.

P.S. - Volcano is worth the trip. IJTC was excellent also. *** Edited 10/24/2006 9:21:52 PM UTC by Loopy***

So which ones better?

Walt said:

Penalizing the vast majority rather than going after the few that are a problem is not the way to solve anything.

You're looking at this from the angle of, "how does this affect me personally?" - which is fine and understandable. But the park has to look at the big picture and take in all factors, including cost of new technology, percentage of people who actually use the pass option, money lost to fraud, etc. Taking everything into account, this is the solution they've come up with at this time.

This goes for the seat belt thing too... I wish they would fix that. They seem to just penalize everyone and go on with life. Its stupid and not a way to run a business. Its bad decisions like this one that make it not fun to go anymore.

Anyway, Does anybody know if GL's Season Pass center will open in April so if i bought a Maxx Pass from GL that i can get it processed so i can go to CP on opening day since GL doesn't open till May 26th? *** Edited 10/25/2006 2:31:43 AM UTC by Lakeland05***

Lakeland05 said:
This goes for the seat belt thing too... I wish they would fix that. They seem to just penalize everyone and go on with life. Its stupid and not a way to run a business. Its bad decisions like this one that make it not fun to go anymore.

Other than ensuring all are the same length, what do you want them to do? It's not like they can lengthen them all.

what do you want them to do?

All I seem to hear is "Well, that's what the manufacturer says we have to do, so we have to do it."

What they should be saying is "The proposed seat belt restrictions and revised operating policies are unacceptable, not only to us but most importantly to our customers. We'd like you to redesign the coaster so 95% of the people who walk through our gates can ride it and our employees can operate it efficiently. We'd like you to do that immediately. If you can't do that, we'll be going to other manufacturers for future rides and will pursue legal recourse to recover damages on this one."

My beef is that they act like their billion dollar company has zero clout with a manufacturer like Intamin. I say "Take the gloves off!" It's not like Intamin has had a string of fabulously successful rides. Don't just sit there and take crap from them. Make them fundamentally fix the ride, not band-aid it with ridiculous "pull an inch" belt policies.

One word: "lawsuit".

I agree 100% with you TTD!! Its stupid to just let something like that happen and sit there and take it. Its like a bully beating up on someone and they don't fight back.

TTD is sinking too! said:

what do you want them to do?

All I seem to hear is "Well, that's what the manufacturer says we have to do, so we have to do it."

I believe the state of Ohio requires that parks like CP must adhere to the manufacturer regulations, so unless CP wants to be in bigger trouble they have to comply.

Not to mention that no one wants the liability if something were to happen... Especially if they let out some slack (no pun intended) in their policy after they knew there had been problems elsewhere in the past.

Does anybody know if GL's Season Pass center will open in April so if i bought a Maxx Pass from GL that i can get it processed so i can go to CP on opening day since GL doesn't open till May 26th?

I believe the state of Ohio requires that parks like CP must adhere to the manufacturer regulations

But the manufacturer sets the regulations, or at a minimum can design the ride such that strict regulations aren't necessary. Cedar Fair shouldn't accept restrictive regulations without challenge.

For instance, rather than accepting Intamin's "new regulation" that belts need to be shortened and riders must "pull an inch" (a capacity killer, as we've all seen,) why not insist Intamin redesign the seat/safety system (at their cost) so that everyone who could previously ride can still ride (safely). A company of Cedar Fair's size certainly has the leverage.

Bringing this discussion back on topic, I believe this is yet another example where you hurt your best customers through misguided policy decisions. In my opinion, the PROPER resolution to the belt fiasco is to have Intamin redesign the seats/safety system, not prevent hundreds of thousands of riders from riding the ride through shorter belts and lower capacity. Similarly, the PROPER parking pass policy is to go after the people who abuse the system, not disappoint thousands who use the parking pass properly.

I don't think it's coincidence that policy decisions like these are increasing at the same time attendance is decreasing. The economy might be struggling, but decisions like these sure aren't helping.

If CP demands that Intamin make those changes, it increases the likelihood that CP would be held liable in an (unlikely) accident involving the seat belts.

There's no way Cedar Fair's liability rises doing what I've suggested. It would likely fall substantially.

If Intamin redesigns the seat or the safety system and there's a failure, Intamin will bear the brunt of the responsibility.

If you're worried about liability, the last thing you want is a "subjective" safety policy, implemented by college kids. That's exactly what Cedar Fair agreed to with "pull an inch" (or "two inches," or "whatever looks about right.")

They need to get to a point where "if it buckles or locks, the train is good to go." That safety system must also be suitable to the typical riders and mindful of capacity issues. Intamin's current system fails on the latter two counts, and fixing it should be their responsibility.