NEW Policy with MF seatbelts?

I work with insurance companies and I can assure you that their number one concern is NOT you. I am glad you had a good experience.

But, Intamin has had some major claims filed against them in the last couple of years. 3 deaths have occurred, likely at least in part because of restraint issues. I am CERTAIN that these changes are being made to protect their ass-ets.

If you don't think Cedar Point wasn't accutely aware of the problems this was going to present when the directive first came down then you are in la-la land. They know this is a major PR issue for them. They know there are guests who are extremely unhappy. They certainly have had lengthy discussions with Intamin.

If you all want to give your two cents on the issue, who am I to stop you? But, I can assure you that you aren't going to tell them anything they don't already know. People on here seem to think they have some type of great contribution they can make. "Hey, the belt should go under...not over. We should let CP know."

They know. They know everything. They are out there 7 days a week, 12 hours a day dealing with this.

I disagree with your broad stroke analysis of insurance companies. I also work with them in my job and I have a completely different perspective on it than you. Each their own. But the type of insurance we are talking about with Intamin is completely different from car, home or health insurance most people are familiar with. Unless you work with the type of an insurance carrier Intamin has or even know who Intamins insurance is with there is no way to lump what you know into this situation. Each situation, type of company, etc. is different.

Threads on here dont make any difference period. Forums are designed to communicate your perspective and in some cases vent with other people who are also interested in the same subject. According to people here, CP officials check out this board and its quite obvious by the media reports they check out message boards also. So I dont quite understand what your last post is saying. You shouldnt post unless you are an engineer, work for Intamin or CP? Its about opinions, experiences and different ideas, simple as that.

Anyway, I'am not trying to get into an argument and I dont want to. But thats my useless 2 cents on it. LOL *** Edited 5/27/2004 9:20:35 PM UTC by CPTwister*** *** Edited 5/27/2004 9:21:43 PM UTC by CPTwister***

Hey, Wahoo, you forgot a couple from your lesson a few messages back:

lose (verb): Used to indicate the cessation of possession
Will Cedar Point lose money?

loose (adjective): Antonym for 'tight'
You may not leave the seat belt loose on Millennium Force

:)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Who also hates to see the language abused

My friend has asked me to say that the ride ops are trying to do something about this situation too. I just got off the phone with them and they said something should come about for consistancy by July, hopefully stitching that says where that inch is. But as for going back to the old length..don't count on it. Also, the test seat has been changed to the same length as the belts on the trains, but they are asking for 2" of slack in the test seat just to be sure. *** Edited 5/27/2004 11:36:25 PM UTC by cedarpointchic***

This may be off point a bit, but I remember reading something within the last few years about Dick Kinzel riding some of the coasters here and there.

This article ( it's an AP story from August, 2001) --

http://www.thehollandsentinel.net/stories/081901/bus_0819010037.shtml

-- noted how Mr. Kinzel would make sure there was a little extra space between him and the lap bar on MF for "air time."

I've seen Mr. Kinzel on the Midway from time to time, and he's certainly not a BIG GUY, like some us. However, I find it interesting that he wasn't obsessed with being totally stapled into the seat due to safety issues and instead was interested in enhancing the thrill. After all, MF has endangered our lives, unbeknowst to us, over the past few years. But hey, the boss man saw no problems with making sure the lap bar wasn't crunched right up against him so he could get a better rush.

But hey, times change.

Hope my diction and grammar are OK. Hee Hee!

I have been looking aroud quite a bit and cant seem to figure out if the 1 inch slack policy is in place for all the coasters or just Millie.

CPTwister,

I didn't say you shouldn't post your aggravations. But what I was saying is that letters to Intamin and Cedar Point saying things like, "hey did you consider this" are pointless...unless of course you are a roller coaster engineer. I have yet to meet a roller coaster engineer on these boards. There are a lot of self proclaimed "experts" though.

Rideman, how could I forget lose and loose? Another big pet peeve of mine. Thanks.

I suspect you won't hear Mr. Kinzel say another (public) word about airtime on MF.

A "little" extra space isn't going to make any safety difference, especially if your seatbelt is fastened. That guy at Six Flags wasn't properly fastened or restrained. I'd say 90% of the blame should be on the ride-ops running that coaster as they obviously didn't check his restraint or were blind to see there was all that room for him to fall out.

Now I don't know about you, but I couldn't fall out of MF if I had 3 or 4 inches of space between me and that lap bar and NO belt on. I'm too big to fit out a 4 inch gap, let alone if I DO have my seatbelt on like I'm supposed to.

I also think being stapled on an Intamin coaster like MF *does* take some of the fun out of it. You can't feel any "lift" if you're pushed dead hard (aka "stapled") against your seat (I can't, anyway, at least nothing worth talking about). Most non-horse-collar coaster designs don't even allow that degree of "stapling" that Intamin rides allow, especailly if they're padded (which has "give" to it). Even a half-inch of space makes all the difference (seatbelts will give a little bit, thus not causing the problem, but hard lap bars will not).

Ride-ops trying to squash you wear you sit like a bug only makes the ride painful, not more safe. But an argument like this would never wash when these morons (yes MORONS) think that 1 inch of extra slack in your seatbelt makes ANY difference at all (a locked seatbelt that is tight against the rider functions the same regardless).

This should be about SAFETY, not NONSENSE yet both CP and Intamin have made it about nonsense (Intamin for saying it and CP for agreeing with them. CP has to COMPLY, but that doesn't mean they have to AGREE. In fact, if they do agree, that is the same as admitting they've been running an unsafe coaster from day one and that probably puts them in more legal jeopardy than anything else. If they want to score PR points with the public, they should be placing the blame where it belongs and say "we are requried by law to comply with Intamin's directive even though we disagree with them."

As for the belt length, if they ARE going to stick with this 1" thing permanantly, what they should do is replace the belts on all the trains with ones that are 1" shorter instead of playing guessing games or having to mark them somehow. That would solve the problem for everyone that thinks they got screwed by someone's bad judgment and it would speed up the train loading to boot (much easier to check if it's locked than examine the slack length). I've heard reports here of 1-3" and some with no checks at all. That's total inconsistency.

Personally I'd like to smack the asshole ride op who pushed on my wife's bar with all of his weight. She has bruises on her thighs, and certainly wasn't any safer for it. Thanks, asshole! I have a hard enough time getting her to visit the park with me.

Jeff: Sounds like you met the guy who secured me on Opening Weekend. :(

The more I see, the more convinced I become that the real problem with Millennium Force isn't official park policy or changes to the ride or anything like that...it's a few operators on that ride who are in serious need of an attitude adjustment.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

You're probably right. I know a couple of people working that ride and they take it seriously and stick to the operating directives to the letter, regardless of their opinion on it. They also do their best to sensitively handle the issues of size, and lose a lot of sleep when they need to boot someone off.

But this jerk... there's one or two on that ride every year.

Jeff, did the Ride Ops name happen to be Jeremy? He stapled me on my trip back in early May. It was the hardest I had ever been stapled on any ride in my life, and being a guy you know what pain I was going through. I felt like I had just taken a kick to the groin area, and the had breath taken right out of me.

Is this 1 inch slack policy in affect for all coasters at the point or just Millie?

Here was SFNE solution to the problem, If you watch the video it will show what the new restraints are like. S:ros reopened this weekend.

WWLP.COM Local News Stories

If Cedar Point follows suit the seats will fit a larger range of people.

I was with my friend and i'm very tiny, but my friend..not so tiny. They wouldnt even let him in the line if they didnt see one inch of black in the test seat! Luckly he fit!

Hmm, that new system doesn't look too bad actually. The seatbelts on the sides of the lab bars seem like a much better way of judging whether or not someone is too large for the restraints than measuring it with the lab seatbelt.

I agree. That "go-no go" belt acts as a measure for lap bar, which was sorely needed. Before, the single seat belt did nothing to ensure if the lap bar was in a proper position. Also note that the seatbelt now attaches in the middle of the rider, instead of off to the side. That should make it MUCH easier to buckle for the passenger.

I still suspect that a dragster style lap bar and seat position would still be a better option. This just appears to help prevent operator error, but really does nothing in terms of restraint design. Also this looks like a capacity killer (not that they had much to begin with ;)).

I’m interested to see what the size limits of S:ROS are like compared to Millennium Force. If the belts are the same "length" as before, (except the rows that were longer), I suspect it would. I guess that means I have to go to Mass. and ride it again ;).

Nonsense... if the belt were the proper length it would've measured up just fine. Neither the bar nor the belt in their prior state would measure if someone's proportions were outside of securing the rider. A belt that is the proper length measures this just fine. The secondary belt only proves you can bush the bar in far enough through the rider's mass, not secure them.

But Jeff, depending on how they set the minimum closure point on the lap bar, that might be enough to ensure that the rider is secure. The idea is, get the bar back far enough to force the legs to stay bent under the lap bar so that there isn't a gap for the rider's legs to slide through.

What keeps the rider from being secured is when the lap bar can't come down far enough to trap the thighs. In theory at least, the go/no-go belt fixes that problem in a way that the seat belt *can't*. I'm with Joe E on this one (or he's with me, one or the other, I'm not sure which... :) )

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

so why not just outfit MF with those NOW??

i cant imagine it would take TOO terribly long if it was done one train at a time or even in an all-nighter by the maintenance crew...

at least then, there wouldnt be any of this riding in the morning and being refused at night thing...

no guesswork, no inconsistency...and better than THIS stupidity....

Jeff, I sympathize with you. I was stapled unbelievably hard yesterday. The ride-op (name withheld) physically leaned down with both hands on the lap bar. I'm not bruised this morning, but my legs are still sore!

I'm large (6'2", 235, 36" waist), but pull 3-4" slack without problem. There was no need for that! It made the rest of my day thoroughly UNENJOYABLE (Cedar Point, are you listening??)

Welcome to staple-mania on Millennium Force. The more this silliness goes on, the more absurd it gets. I'm going to avoid the ride until this blows over and a "real", workable fix is in place.