NEW Policy with MF seatbelts?

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Chasity Buehrer said:

Even if I was the same size as last year, I don't like the fact that I have never been turned away before, I have always been safe, so why am I so unsafe now? .

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See, Cedar Point and Intamin had put us at risk for our lives! I should thank my lucky stars I am still alive after riding MillForce and SROS@SFNE so much, since they had put me in such a life threatening position.

We know this is not really the case In both cases of Perilous Plunge and the S:ROS’s, the rider was simply to large for the T-bar to be of any effect.

Example from the latest incident investigation.

Contributing Factor #1. Girth of the victim. The girth of the victim's lower torso was incompatible with the "T" bar restraint. Based on photographic evidence, it appears that the victim's body configuration prevented the "T" bar restraint from being in a position that would adequately protect the patron from being ejected.

And here Cedar Point and Intamin are trying to solve the "problem" with adjustments to the seatbelts, when it is obvious the seat belt that the victim was using was to long to be effective, and that was SFNE’s ride Maintenance fault. I believe also that in the Perilous Plunge investigation they found some differences in seat belt length (correct me if I am wrong). All of this should have been avoided if.

1.Ride Opertors are instructed and insure that the T-Bar is effective and in the proper position (i.e in contact with the thighs and not being interfered with by the riders girth)

2. Seatbelts are consistent with the manufactures original specifications.

Which is what Cedar Point was doing perfectly before! So many potentially safe riders are now unable to ride very unsound reasoning. This is what I fail to understand and many others, and I think is the big issue. Instead their solution is just something that causes more problems and doesn’t solve the real issue. *** Edited 5/26/2004 5:28:55 PM UTC by Joe E***

I am in total agreement with you Joe E. I am still floored about how much longer the belt in question was regarding the S:ROS incident. How could that have happened? Shouldn't SFNE's maintenance crew(or whoever is in charge of them) be crucified for that? Don't you think that the belt length combined with the fact that he shouldn't have been allowed to board at all adds up to Intamin as well as MF being "cleared" so to speak? I sure do....

everyone remembers the man falling out of superman at six flags but does anybody know if it had seatbelts because i rode the titan at sfot and it only had the lapbar.

There are 13 pages of posts here, and frankly I JUST don't have time to read them all, so I dont know if it was mentioned, but have there been many people who can ride MF and not TTD or vice versa?

Just a reminder since it has been a while since it was mentioned.

The manufacturer insisted on these changes and, per law, Cedar Point is REQUIRED to comply. The alternative is that the ride can be shut down. Anyone ok with that idea?

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coolfun5688 said:
everyone remembers the man falling out of superman at six flags but does anybody know if it had seatbelts because i rode the titan at sfot and it only had the lapbar.

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If you are referring to the first guy that fell out, there was no seatbelts on the ride at that time. They were added a short time later.

As far as Titan goes, it was made by Giovanola (same people that made Goliath at SFMM).

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coasternut69 said:
From the GOCC website http://gocc.coasternewsnetwork.com/ New Millennium Force T-Shirts!

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That's a really great way for a coaster club to maintain a good relationship with the park. Nice going!

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D. A. Rossi said:

Now here is a trip report from a customer that Cedar Point is more concerned about losing:

"checked into the Breakers for three nights, kids were screaming for ice cream so had some before going into the park., took the train to Frontiertown where the kids had to eat and then played guess your age a couple of times. Rode the Cedar Creek Mine Ride then walked up the Frontier Trail purchasing many items along the way. Rode the antique cars then on to the Pagoda Gift Shop, kids were tired so back to the hotel where they played in the arcade for an hour trying to win a stuffed dog that costs 49 cents."

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I think what they need to be carefull of is, "This year dad was too fat to ride so he decided that we would go to Mackinac Island instead"

There is plenty of stuff to do at CP rather than ride the best rides. The rides can accomodate the vast majority of Cedar Point's guests but how many embarassed, slighted, or left out members in a group does it take to make the decision to spend your money somewhere else. There is a lot of choices out there when you are spending that kind of money for a couple of days. I am a long time season pass holder and I am not as excited to go as I was last year.

Vanessa,

This issue is confined to MF. Those that could ride once (even on the same day), have been told that they couldn't ride today (insert even later on the SAME day).

The policy stinks and sucks for the crew as much (or even more) than it sucks for the guests.

MrScott

MrScott

A lot of you guys on here are wondering If Cedar Point we'll lose money. From every page I've read on here someone has said something about that. We'll let me say this. I think the line for Millennium Force won't be that long. I would say even by July expect to wait like an hour. If Cedar Point can change policy and extend the seat belt to wear it was, than a lot more people we'll come. I think that as long as we keep the seatbelt where it is, it's going to hurt them but they won't lose a lot of money.

One thing I think that we all need to consider. I don't remember seeing this mentioned before, but if it has, I apologize for regurgitating it.

Before we demonize Intamin for designing seats that are not friendly to larger riders, stop and think about the seat design itself: Intamin seat design is an integral part of the thrill. Before I went to Cp, a friend described the seats on MF as "It's like a lawn chair with a seatbelt." The seat design is very open, and that does add to the thrill. It also makes it more difficult to accomodate larger riders.

Is there a way to keep the open design, and still be safe for the bigger riders? (Of which I am one. From what I've heard, I think I'll fit, but I'm getting in the test seat first.) I hope they can pull that off. If not, MF may go to a more B&M-like seat. (Plastic bucket with an OTSR lid)

Remember- not having an accident doesn't necessarily mean it was safe. It may have just been lucky.

I wanted to let this go but I just cannot:

will (verb) Used to indicate simple futurity.

"Will Cedar Point lose money?"

we'll (Contraction) contraction of we will.

"We will lose money."

well (interjection) used to introduce a remark, resume a narrative, or fill a pause during conversation.

"Well, let me say this."

wear (verb) to carry or have on the person...as protection.

"I must wear a seatbelt."

where (adverb) at or in what place.

"Where is the seatbelt?"

Sorry. I just hate to see our language abused.

The loss of certain sized riders is not going to make a significant difference in the length of the line. Will this result in a loss of money for the park? I doubt it.

How ironic is it that the same year they open the new donut shop they have to place limitations on oversized riders? Maybe they should follow Krispy Kreme's lead and offer a low-carb, low-fat donut.

I highly doubdt CP is going to see any major drop in revenue this year resulting from this. However, they are getting alot of bad press over this. Anyway you slice it, that isnt good. Here is the question, they may not see a drop in attendance. But will they see an increase? Ultimately you want to increase the number of customers for more profits. I dont think the press on this is helping that at all. A year after the Dragster problems, with no new ride, it isnt super encouraging. If a decent percentage of guests continue to be unhappy on a consistant basis, it will effect revenue eventually (I'am talking over several years). I think CP will make some type of adjustment before it becomes any type of factor though. Unfortunately I think the adjustment will be made during the off season when they can work on the trains more easily and not effect the operation of the ride itself. Which means I will probebly wait until next year to go back.

i think cedar point will loose a little money but i think that they will slowly back out of this by making the seatbelts longer etc. but remeber they can't admit they were wrong because that would make them look bad but they can do something like make the belts longer and it won't make them look bad.

i sure hope they do something soon because i have to make up my mind on weather to go or not.

so if anyone notices or hears anyting tell me. *** Edited 5/27/2004 4:24:19 PM UTC by coolfun5688***

Is school out? I know the kids here still have a couple of weeks left.

Cedar Point will not make any decision as to the changes to the ride. Intamin MAY make some changes, though even that is not certain.

The real question is what, if any changes will we see in future coasters? Will body size be taken into account on the next Cedar Point coaster? If so, who decides where to draw the line? Should coasters be designed for anyone under 250 lbs, 275, 300? At some point a line must be drawn.

Some people can't fit into a bucket seat in a Ford Taurus. Does that mean Ford should redesign the seats? (That does raise the question, though: If a car seat belt is adequate with just a lap and shoulder harness...would that work on a coaster?)

So has anyone thought of writing to Intamin instead since they are apparently the ONLY ones that can do something about this issue? Point out to them it was the T-Bar, not the seatbelt that was identified as the issue and that their seatbelt was considerably longer than MF to begin with and that NO SLACK makes sense while having 1 or 2 inches of slack has nothing to do with a properly functioning seatbelt. In short, their logic regarding MF is flawed. MF was never in the same situation as the Six Flags coaster in question.

Thinking back, I was actually able to ride MF when I was close to 300 lbs and a 48" waist, as that's what I was before I went on my diet back in 2001. I rode MF on AAA day (twice) when it first opened and agian the following fall. I was 46" and 280 or so last year. I'm currently 263 and 44" (and falling). I don't recall the seatbelt fitting any differently between the two sets of rides, though. It's probably because the seatbelt doesn't really go over your gut, but rather across your hips. If you have wide hips, you're probably going to have problems regardless of your gut. If it were just my gut, I'd figure an extra inch of slack would be covered by my 2-3" waistline loss since last year, but I'm betting that is simply not the case. There's more factors involved. WHERE you lose the weight is probably just as important as how much.

Their statistics sound much worse than a 1" shift, though. 40" and 225lbs is a FAR cry from 46" and 280 lbs I was able to ride at least year and the near 300lbs and 48" I rode at the first year it was open. That's not a "go on a diet now and you can ride before summer is over" type change. That's a, "you should have told me last year about the change because I'm going to be starving myself for the next 9 months to get there" kind of change.

Regarding the Atkins diet; I'm on it. I lost close to 20lbs relatively quickly (the first month) and I'm sure that's including substantial water loss). After that, it's SLOWED a LOT. I'm talking 5 lbs if you're lucky in a month. I hear in one study the average is 20 lbs per 6 months and that by a year most tend to have stalled regardless of how closely you follow the diet. I barely lost 5 lbs in the past month, despite strictly following it. My previous 500 calorie diet (bad for you) in past years was much more successful, but very painful to follow. But I have since decided calories count regardless of carbs and have reduced myself to a near starvation diet again (only keeping low carbs since you get less hungry than with carbs or low fat), eating only once or twice a day at most and smaller intake at that. Maybe 500-800 calories a day. Weight is pouring off again at about 1lb a day. I figure that's the ONLY way I can get to at least that 40" waist and 225 weight before the summer is over instead of taking my time and doing a safe diet. Thanks a lot Intamin and Cedar Point.... You try starving yourself for a while and see how you like it.

Not all of us have athletic metabolisms. I eat normal and I'm lucky if I stay the same. Eat a guilty pleasure once in awhile and my weight slowly rises (it took me 10 years to go from 200 to 300 lbs so it wasn't some crash course in junk food that did it, but rather a lack of starving myself to make up for the occasional binge). But hey, I'm an American and we're all fat (or so the stereotype goes). I almost never eat fast food and I never eat at McDonalds and I've almost always drank diet soda. But I forgot that a "normal" portion of mashed potatoes is a half cup as is a "bowl" of cereal (you can't fill a bowl with a half cup, so the word "bowl" is a misnomer if you follow the serving sizes). I guess that is what ultimately did me in over 10 years. Eating until I was full instead of eating half cups of cereal and not exercising enough to make up for it (gotta love computers that encourage you to sit instead of getting out). Now I'm paying for it, I guess.

I've noticed people with high metabolisms almost NEVER can relate, though. They get these misconceptions about how you get fat even though half of them are probably eating with the same patterns. If their metabolisms ever slow down or they become less active, they'll blow up like balloons. My dad was that way. He was skinny as could be (and made fun of fat people all the time from what I hear) until around 30 when his metabolism dropped and now he's over 400lbs because his eating habits never changed (or got worse the less active he got). Maybe he got what he deserved for making fun of obese people? That's kind of mean too, but having always struggled with a low metabolism, I have NEVER related to being able to eat what I want and not pay the consequences for it.

It would be difficult to measure any decline of attendance due to this procedure. First, if there was a loss it would most likely not be felt till next year, because the majority of people visit once a year, and their decision to return would most likely be based on last years experience. Obviously weather, capital expenditure, economic condition, etc., would vary attendance from year to year, so to measure something like that is virtually impossible.

I will point out that Cedar Point’s best year attendance wise was in 1994 with 3.5 million guest. Raptor, being the first somewhat confining ride and first requiring a test seat was built that year. Since then, capital expenditures (on more confining rides) and number of operating days have increased , yet they have yet to exceed that mark set in 1994. Could it be that we have already seen some effect with the newly confining rides? I don’t know, but I think this is an interesting question.

Then again, per cap spending went up in this period, and the L.P. continued to grow. So there appears to be no real financial distress over this issue, which is what will effect the final say on what happens in the future

You can write Intamin (like they'll care) but the issue likely goes beyond them. I am all but certain that with the deaths that have happened on Intamin's rides in the past few years they have an insurance company that is all over them like white on rice.

Now, if any of you have EVER had any luck talking sense to an insurance company I would LOVE to hear your story.

Wouldn't Mean Streak be considered a bit restrictive? I know it is for us girls with big butts. It is on the "guests of excessive size may have trouble riding..." list. So is DT, although I'm not quite sure why. I would like to see a test seat in front of the streaks because I have been scared to try them.

While Intamin is the one that would OK any changes. Cedar Point as their customer can certainly put the lean on them to do something. So to place it squarly on Intamin is only partially correct. If their customer doesnt care about the change, why would Intamin? It has to work itself up the chain. We complain to CP, CP complains to Intamin. Then maybe something will get done.

Wahoo, I had an insurance claim on my car 2 years ago and they handled the claim flawlessly. I had my car back in a 3 days and they gave me a rental in the meantime. People tend to get all over insurance companies because they are only used if something bad happens. So there is a general negative perception because you only think of them when something bad happens to you. I guess, what was it about your insurance company that you didnt understand? Because the concept is a pretty basic one.