New for 2015

noggin said:
All parks have a finite amount of space to use. Cedar Point's may be more noticeable, being on the peninsula. SF Great America, Indiana Beach and Hersheypark are a few that come to mind.

And if Cedar Fair only builds record breaking attractions (by which I assume you mean really tall or long coasters) at other parks -- what of it? There's much more to a successful park than its rides.

You're right that a park is more than just its rides. CP has a special identity though. I just want to see them maintain that. It's a source of pride for the area. :)

Since you mentioned Indiana Beach, have you been in recent years? They are definitely crunched for space. I'm hoping that they can get that park turned around. The last time that I was there you could really tell that the property had not been well maintained.

You also mentioned something about CF building their record breaking coasters elsewhere, even though CP is just a short time removed from building a record breaking winged coaster.

Record-breaking coasters aren't a requirement, MF has been topped in the records for a while now yet it was still voted #1 in the world by some publications for many years in a row. Maverick surely never was the tallest or fastest yet people love it nonetheless. Magnum has been surpassed for well over a decade, yet it still continues to draw folks into the park. The list goes on...

Whether or not CP remains the #1 amusement park in the world according to some publications is rather irrelevant in the scheme of things. CP will always be a top amusement park and being #6 or #1 in the time magazine poll is meaningless other than perhaps for a marketing ploy. CP calls itself the roller coaster capital of the world, being that this is a subjective statement, they will continue to call it that no matter what the USA Today poll says...

I doubt there are many, outside of enthusiast boards, who would even think to "identify" other Cedar Fair parks as having "flagship rides". If Joe Public is thinking about taking the family to Cedar Point, what rides may be present at far away parks aren't a consideration.

Chuck Wagon said:
I get what you saying, but if you think about it Carowinds is getting a ride similar to one Cedar Point built 15 years ago. Last year, Cedar Point added a wing coaster, which is still the only wing coaster in the Cedar Fair chain.

That's a good point Chuck. It just seemed that they specifically wanted to top the MF is nearly every possible category. Maybe had the Fury been longer, but not taller, my mind wouldn't be wondering so much. Haha.

noggin said:
I doubt there are many, outside of enthusiast boards, who would even think to "identify" other Cedar Fair parks as having "flagship rides". If Joe Public is thinking about taking the family to Cedar Point, what rides may be present at far away parks aren't a consideration.

Hmmm...that's possible. I saw quite a few comments on Facebook yesterday from people who normally make a trip to Cedar Point who had expressed an interest in going to Carowinds next year instead to check out the latest ride. Maybe that would be short lived if they get there and don't find much else.

jsmith7300 said:

That's a good point Chuck. It just seemed that they specifically wanted to top the MF is nearly every possible category. Maybe had the Fury been longer, but not taller, my mind wouldn't be wondering so much. Haha.

But none of this will change the fact that MF is a great ride, and one of the top coasters in the world. Correct me if I am wrong but I though MF never held the tallest record after it was actually built, and lost the fastest record a few years later. None of these new rides has ever changed the fact that MF is one of the greatest coasters in the world. MF will become, if it is not already, The Beast of the Steel Giants. Do not look at Fury as threat, but rather look at it, and Carowinds as an awesome Platinum pass perk if your ever in the Carolinas!!

JUnderhill said:

jsmith7300 said:

That's a good point Chuck. It just seemed that they specifically wanted to top the MF is nearly every possible category. Maybe had the Fury been longer, but not taller, my mind wouldn't be wondering so much. Haha.

But none of this will change the fact that MF is a great ride, and one of the top coasters in the world. Correct me if I am wrong but I though MF never held the tallest record after it was actually built, and lost the fastest record a few years later. None of these new rides has ever changed the fact that MF is one of the greatest coasters in the world. MF will become, if it is not already, The Beast of the Steel Giants. Do not look at Fury as threat, but rather look at it, and Carowinds as an awesome Platinum pass perk if your ever in the Carolinas!!

That is a great way to look at things, thanks! We have been talking about doing the platinum passes for next year. We were planning to go to CP and KI as much as possible so I doubt we'd make it out to NC, but it's good to know that we could get in if were out that way for some reason. :)

On a side note, my wife and I are making another trip to CP next Wednesday (without kids this time) and I'm hoping that the crowds will be fairly light so I can ride all of the big rides including the Millennium Force.

jsmith7300 said:
What I'm saying is that in the future as CF continues to develop its other parks, how will people identify with CP? Will it continue to be known as the "roller coaster capital of the world" (and that's already debatable) or will it someday just be known as "the roller coaster capital of northern Ohio" when people start to identify CF's other parks as having flagship rides.

Listening to what Ouimet has said with regard to legacy, there's every reason to believe he understands what CP is, was, and should be going forward. Now, that may all be lip service, but I think regardless of what other parks get, CP will always be somewhat special within the chain.

However, it's a safe bet that Carowinds will see continued heavy investment over the next 10 years, given their growth potential. It will almost certainly be "Cedar Point of the East Coast".

Back in the 50s, the then-owners of Cedar Point announced they were going to make it the "Disneyland of the Midwest."

jsmith7300 said:
If you believe the numbers on Wikipedia, Cedar Point's attendance hasn't really grown since before the Millennium Force was built. It's a 364 acre seasonal park that has very little room for expansion - except in areas that are already developed. Cedar Fair has expressed an interest in tapping Carowinds' growth potential by making it one of their largest parks (it is already larger in acreage than CP). Cedar Fair wants to make Carowinds a destination and they've opened a satellite corporate office in Charlotte.

Why continue to make a landlocked amusement park that hasn't grown in attendance the "thrill capital" when you can head to another market? Will Cedar Fair eventually move their headquarters out of Sandusky if Carowinds grows and becomes the new flagship park?

Carowinds certainly isn't larger in size than CP, you are looking at how much land they own which includes Camp Wilderness. By very rough calculation the size of Carowinds amusement park itself, which includes the water park, is 100 acres, where CP is approximately 152 acres which does NOT include Soak City, the resorts, marina, etc.

CP is already bigger in area than most other parks, being landlocked is not an issue. There is plenty of room for expansion and modification. People new to this site probably don't know of what has been said here many, many times: CP does not have a space problem.

Cedar Fair certainly wants to grow Carowinds attendance, as they should because it is a great area of the country that will support a park more if the product is there.

You are not taking into account that CP is much more than just the amusement park. They wouldn't be pouring $60 million into just Hotel Breakers (more than Carowinds multi-year total of $50 million) if management didn't see the potential of Cedar Point's resort side as a complete vacation destination. Something that would be very hard to duplicate anywhere else. CP has the location to be a resort, it is not just an amusement park built on a plot of land outside a city. CP brings in the bucks, that is why it is the flagship, not because it has MF.

As far as CF headquarters, that is not necessarily tied to any amusement park. That is just how Kinzel wanted it. The headquarters could just as easily be in Cleveland or even New York City. I believe the satellite office is a leftover from the Paramount era when they owned KI, KD, CW, and Carowinds.

Escaping from this carowinds vs cedar point debate, we haven't really discussed what exactly the new flat ride will be. Someone mentioned a zip line. A zip line along the beach? They have been promoting the beach a lot the past 2 years, and especially this year with all the parties and festivities on it. Not sure if this would be a thing, but I think it would be lots of fun.

And if we were talking about the oh so common "cp is running out of space" debate, they have challenge park which is expected to be removed and incorporated with the rest of the park. Is anyone aware of the space that will free up? A lot. They have TONS of space people. If not I suppose they could just keep inching up in the parking lot, buy all the houses on the shawse and tear them down for more space >:D

People say things on face book like hey i want to go ride that next year with out even knowing were the ride, is does not mean they are going real go. Also Cedar fairs once to get people to the park so a new ride will make them more money. Updating breakers will get more people to stay longer or go back to staying there. it needed it bad.I Know People who say its not a nice hotel but its nice to be right next to the park so if you get a few people to stay a day longer due to a new nicer hotel then it will pay for its self. Also like people said i talk to people at the bubbles bar at soak city every year,and people stay for 3,4 or 5 days at a time. People are not going to do at a Different park. In Business you have to spend money to make money.

Who said Challenge Park was expected? I don't expect that whatsoever..

The argument could be made the corporate HQ should be more centrally located to the majority of its parks (sorry, Great America) rather than at or near any one park. Facilitates executive visits to parks, for example.

And yes, Cedar Point has tons of space. Don't forget, the park line-up isn't static. The trick isn't just knowing what to add, it's also knowing what to remove.

thepoint4life23 said:
People say things on face book like hey i want to go ride that next year with out even knowing were the ride, is does not mean they are going real go. Also Cedar fairs once to get people to the park so a new ride will make them more money. Updating breakers will get more people to stay longer or go back to staying there. it needed it bad.I Know People who say its not a nice hotel but its nice to be right next to the park so if you get a few people to stay a day longer due to a new nicer hotel then it will pay for its self. Also like people said i talk to people at the bubbles bar at soak city every year,and people stay for 3,4 or 5 days at a time. People are not going to do at a Different park. In Business you have to spend money to make money.

It looked like many of the comments that I saw were coming from people who lived closer to Carowinds than Cedar Point. I'll admit, it was anecdotal...but then again so it talking to strangers at a bar. ;) Last time we went to CP we stayed only 1 night because the room prices were outrageous.

thedevariouseffect said:
Who said Challenge Park was expected? I don't expect that whatsoever..

C'mon, Challenge Park isn't the Spanish Inquisition.

Nobody expects..... the Challenge Park!

phillies2 said:
For an article in the plain dealer it said

In Sandusky, a spokesman for Cedar Point said no date had been set for the park to announce its plans for 2015.

The title was New coasters planned in 2015 for Holiday World, Hersheypark; no word yet from Cedar Point

Fall 2014 I talked to Tony Clark and he said expect a announcement fall 2014 maybe fall was a teaser because I did ask he to give me a clue. maybe a dark ride 30FT freefall.

About the space issue, the front parking lot takes up almost a quarter of the peninsula. I always thought that maybe they could start building more rides into the parking lot, and put parking somewhere on the mainland, and then train/bus people in from the mainland lots like Magic Kingdom at Disney World. But now with Gatekeeper I don't think we will ever see the front gate moving at all.

My wife and I just came back from our honeymoon and Carowinds was one of the 3 parks that we hit on our coaster tour. I have to admit, I did not care for the park's lineup at all. Intimidator was decent, but it did not break my personal top 10. Afterburn was closed so we never got to experience that. The rest of the coasters felt like they were just tossed in small lots to fill up space. In addition to that, the flat lineup was subpar. We're Platinum Pass holders so we may just be spoiled with Cedar Point, but it felt like Carowinds and the surrounding area was missing something.

With that being said, I am glad they are getting something new to draw people in. My wife and I are already planning on going back next year to ride Fury 325. We're from Pittsburgh so it's not a short drive, but it's worth it to get Fury 325 in on its debut year. This also gives me an excuse to stop at King's Dominion on the way home. King's Dominion was one of the other parks we stopped at on our coaster tour and I fell in love with I305 and Volcano. I305 was just pure adrenaline to me with the height, speed, and twists like Maverick. Volcano was so unique and relaxing. I've yet to visit King's Island, but until I do, CP and KD are my two favorite Cedar Fair parks to date.