My thoughts

As mentioned numerous times around this board, it's not going to reach 481 for the obvious fact that coefficients of friction and wind have to be take into account. The train will need a little bit of momentum to make it over the top hat as well. If you're talking about a simple object being launched straight up in an ideal environment, then maybe.

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2002 Raptor Crew
"Hey, Cool. My voice is on the lift"

Ok, it is Intamin.

Montu is right but I will add that the twist will bleed off speed as well. That will generate more friction than just the straight track going up the tower.

CP Bound

Please, there is a building near your house, i promise, that is called a library. i suggest you go there one of theses days, take a break from the web to read a little old fashion like. Try looking into some books on physics, the ones with all the numbers, principles, and formulas in them. I bet it would help you understand things better and might help you to stop telling people how wrong they when you are the one without a clue. really! you red out from positive g's and you grey into black out from negative g's. mph has the second greatest effect on force. f=ma. force=massXacceleration (as acceleration is change in mph over time) Force is typically an expression of N newtons). and just to clear things up...g's are forces!

I agree but seeing as there are 35 people who know, you of all people cannot definitely tell there will not be a second point of acceleration. Sorry to pick on you but am tired of reading you misquote physics principles to flame others for the past month.
*** This post was edited by Faster Faster 11/26/2002 11:35:17 AM ***
*** This post was edited by Faster Faster 11/26/2002 11:37:47 AM ***

I'm an engineering professor, but I don't play one on TV. We have a library. We teach physics. Of course, I'm not an engineering professor in Faster Faster's home town, but then again we don't apply thermodynamics to automobiles, either.

While Faster Faster appears to have mastered the first week of Newtonian mechanics, CP Bound is correct in his physics, and most probably correct in his assessment that there will be only one launch. CP Bound is also correct that negative g's cause red outs. As NASA so helpfully explains:

A black out occurs when a rider experiences too many positive g-forces and there is a lack of blood reaching the brain. A red out occurs when a rider experiences too many negative g-forces and the brain receives too much blood.

So, the next time you decide to correct someone, I suggest that you too visit the nearest library and check your facts first.

my concern lies only in the amount of air resistance that this ride will have. The air will build up in front of the riders/train and cause a lot of turbulant wind to the passangers, and slow down the train. I would not be suprised if the first cart especially had a sloped windshield to stop things from crashing into the train head on. but then again it will lessen the whole feeling of speed. Hopefully they chose wheels that minimize friction to help. Luckily its not going to be going at 125 mph for a long period of time.

Got to love the blind leading the blind.

just to clearify, referring to myself here. :)
*** This post was edited by Faster Faster 11/26/2002 4:00:34 PM ***

So brian noble(gas), why have u not corrected CP Bound in the past when i see him flaming people with his erronious physics. And like you, I am not a physicist(sp) or an english teacher obviously. Also, read my quote reply, i never said there would be a second launch. Why the hell would u need one coming down from 400+???? CP Bound goes out of his way to slap people around over the most obvious things. who cares! let them eat cake!
*** This post was edited by Faster Faster 11/26/2002 12:20:23 PM ***

Majinx

You need'nt be concerned im sure they have a solution for the high potential wind resistance and friction. Intamin has never been known to create a ride prior to declaring it safe to ride. I can garuntee you that Intamin is NOT reading your post and slapping their foreheads saying (in swiss) "what were we thinking?!"

Faster Faster

In determining G forces F=ma, yes mass would be the mass of the rider but when the formula says acceleration, they arent talking about linear acceleration they are talking about acceleration due to gravity traditionaly, but in this case it is Centripetal (center seeking) Acceleration, which is the act of the train changing direction around an imaginary fulcrum. That does involve Velocity and the radius from that fulcrum. What CP Bound was referring to wasnt the skyward curve but velocity (D/T[distance over time]) has nothing to do with forces is what he was saying and he was correct. That velocity is a constant not an acceleration.

You shouldn't go through all the trouble of telling him to go and read up at a library when you yourself mixed up the most simplest of common knowledge of coaster enthusiasts.
*** This post was edited by Fluidcoasters 11/26/2002 1:14:23 PM ***

Yes, Fluidcoasters is right. In fact, even during the pullup and pullout (and top hat), when the G force is centripetal force, higher velocity does not necessarily equate to higher Gs. Since the centripetal force is mv^2 / r, a larger radius decreases the force. This, of course, is why the pullup and pullout for #16 have such large radii - to make up for the high velocity and limit the Gs.

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L-TH-TW-B... "Meh"
Wicked twists: 11

Sorry for any confusion but no ****! When i started this I was refering to CP Bounds contradiction. As you both have proved, for some reason, speed will dictate the size of the curve. You don't send people at 120+mph into a tight turn, the people would break....thus the large radii on the pull up/out. I just don't see how he can say speed has nothing to do with G's because if higher speed through a smaller radii turn does not increase g's why do we have the large radii pull up/outs? I totally see my mistake in using f=ma instead of a linear velocity formula to guess at the force going into a turn. But that was not what i was originally getting at. and i apologize about the pos/neg g effect. i had just woken up when i read that. :) Speed also increases inertia and that inertial force must be changed with an equal or larger force in order for that mass to change direction. (usually the track pushing back). So wouldn't that mean that the faster you go the more you feel these larger forces acting on the train (you, your stomach) then you would at a slower speed through the same coarse? Because of a force in motion tends to stay in motion? I have not been in a physics class in 10 years but speed does play a part in forces on the ride. The speed through the change of direction creates forces in all different directions. If not for the 3 wheels most trains would probably come off the track. These forces acting on you are refered to as G forces. Soo the speed during a turn(element) will change the amount of force on the train and you. Changing the radii of that turn will effect the G's at a greater rate but speed still plays a part and CP Bound said it did not! If speed does not matter why did they put breaks before the loop on Mantis? Anyways, sorry if i did not explain myself correctly originally or if you misunderstood.

Fluid, i am new also but welcome! :)

MPH doesn't directly have any effect on the G's exerted on your body. What I was refering to is when someone said that they thought that they ride should go around twice...120 the first time, and then 200 the 2nd time. If it went through the same course, with the same radii of turns and pull up/out's it would be lethal. The speed itself doesn't cause the amout of G's exerted on your body, but the change in direction and it's gradual/abruptness.

You can jump onto your couch and pull 6 G's for a millisecond, but you are traveling fairly slowly. It's all about the change in direction, acceleration, and deceleration.

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Launch: Tophat: Twistage: Brakes...

...Denial is an ugly thing.

Exactly. That is what we all live for! :) I was just being the smart ass that I can be because if you change direction at a high rate of speed you will feel a greater force than changing that exact way at a slower speed. So the rate at which u negatiate a turn, no matter the angle or radii, changes the force factor. The faster you go through a gradual turn produces more force to act on you. MPH does effect the amount of force felt in a turn. And not being sarcastic, it was phun to talk some physics again even if it all got off on a bad note.
*** This post was edited by Faster Faster 11/27/2002 12:56:50 AM ***
*** This post was edited by Faster Faster 11/27/2002 1:03:41 AM ***

Sorry for second post. But I am not even sure that you could hook and launch with a hydraulic launch while the train is moving anyways, could you?

well anything is possible to engineer. that was fun, we need somemore physics debates. lol

The more i think about it, computer timing is all it might take to coordinate the blast.
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Anything, just make it faster! :)

i think that it is possible to do another launch without completely stopping the ride all you would have to do is lower the breaks on the first run and then when it came into the station just hook it up as it blasts back out of the station for launch #2 then completely stop the ride. i think that would be really cool if they did it like that.

I think it will slow down, turn around, and go up a chain lift over Iron Dragon then drop down and do some things on Millennium Island.

"Wild Cat gives you more G's than Millennium Force."

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BTS Cedar Point
http://www.btscedarpoint.tk

Because you go fast through very very small tight a$% turns.

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Anything, just make it faster! :)