Extended Closure

0g:

If building a coaster train that goes over 100 MPH is such a "done deal" and so easy to do, why has it been attempted six times, and only one of the rides is running right now? Any why have four of the attempts seriously injured people or had failures that could have seriously injured people? (Dragster - Threw a flag plate et.al., Kingda Ka - shredded the bottom of the train, Ring Racer - injured staff when the pneumatic system exploded, Do-Dodonpa - reports of riders bones being broken.)

Except none of those closures had to deal with a structural failure of the train or the inability of a train to run reliably over 100 mph without falling apart. (Yes, not even a flag plate coming off after 18 years of reliable operation over 100 mph (for the train at least!) for unknown reasons is tantamount to a "structural failure" of the train.). Kingda Ka accident was a misaligned brake fin, not the train. Ring Racer - nothing to do with the train. Do Dodonpa-- not the train, but an almost insanely designed forceful ride).

Look, no sane person can debate Intamin's hydraulic launches are a maintenance nightmare and overly engineered in their brake fins, sensors, etc. They were not well-designed. Zero debate from me here.

But it's just a huge stretch (and factually inaccurate) to contend the reason these 100 mph+ coasters have closed is because no one cracked the code on how to get a train to run reliably over 100 mph without falling apart. That's just not true.

I’m not sure if it matters for your comparison but Red Force does not have spiral track like TT2 or KK. It’s a quarter turn left and a quarter turn left. I looked at a pov and those turns seem to be more gradual than the snap of both TTD’s turn and spiral. I may be wrong about that. It’s also not as tall if that means anything, probably not.

Take a look at how the aerospace industry views aluminum in applications that experience prolonged multiaxial vibration. The failure mode of aluminum under the circumstances would almost certainly lead to more stiffness(aluminum isn't very stiff as it is) and then more vibration.

I don't think there is a question as to whether or not Zamperla can design a train. I think there is a question as to whether there is enough data for a team of engineers to conduct a proper FMEA occurrence assessment on aluminum constructed coaches that experience these forces.

^^ That's very true, I guess its also a misnomer when I refer to both the up and down sides of the TT2 top hat as "spirals".

Another difference I noticed is that both Red Force and Kingda Ka have A-frame supports on the approach track to the top hat as well as the track coming off the downward side of the Top Hat. Hard to find good POV videos but it doesn't appear that either of those have the sway on these track sections like TTD / TT2. I know it has been that way since TTD opened but now the train is crossing that section of track 3 times per cycle vs once. Maybe there is some strange amplification of the forces the train encounters going on there.

veritas55, it's funny that you're critical of all of the qualifiers, and respond with different qualifiers.

As an aside, to all who claim that TTD was the first Intamin hydraulic launch coaster, not true. Xcelerator At Knotts opened in 2002 a year before Dragster. It's likely that Dragster was ordered before Xcelerator was completed, and before all the bugs were worked out (which there were many, it's still consumes a lot of maintenance time to this day).

Just a question…. Not trying to make an argument here,

What is the comparison to the maintenance of a large woodie compared to the maintenance for say Xcellelator?

Well, more than 24 hours since the last post. It appears after 3 months and 56 pages, we've got nothing left to say.

I'm hoping for a RideMan answer on XS question. I'm genuinely curious myself. It would also be interesting to compare maintaining SV with OG Dragster, purely from a cost perspective.

As for the rest, we've done at least 3 laps on the Zamp vs Intamin. Few laps on how much of an impact this has on Cedar Flags- Zamp. Solid points to go around for all.

I do feel the park should've, long ago, said "This likely won't open again this year". I think consumer is/was "Owed" that. It's how I feel, it's my opinion and I'm not going to bother defending the idea that a company builds good will by being upfront. Because while I know some of you disagree, you will have to accept I think differently. I respect that some feel the consumer isn't owed an explanation/ isn't even aware/ doesn't care/ the whole rest of the park is open so why does it matter/ what would knowing change ect.

I've enjoyed the thread and appreciate this site is still around. While I disagree with Jeff quite a lot on this particular thread I appreciate you facilitating the environment to have such conversations/ debates.

But what if they aren't certain "This likely won't open again this year?" Why would they make such an announcement unless they really knew? Perhaps now that the season is winding down they may, but my guess is they're still hopeful it will open. I understand where you're coming from, but what if they made that announcement and then it did end up opening this year? I think then a whole different group would be upset. I feel like they're basically in the "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situation.

A big wood coaster with wood track requires several people to maintain, and they're on the ride every single day. I think Mean Streak had six full-time, union carpenters, and I assume others who maintained the trains and mechanical bits.

Xcelerator, when it was working, didn't require anyone. I assume that when it broke, mechanics who knew many rides worked on it.

Dragster was likely different because it had more trains and a much bigger motor system. If you think about it, it was actually many motors. And probably twice as many proximity switches.

I don't agree with the idea that anyone is "owed" anything with regard to the ride's status.

If someone is considering purchasing admission, they should make the assumption that the ride won't be open for their visit, so it's either worthwhile to visit without the ride running or it isn't. The same holds true for someone trying to decide whether to purchase 2025 season passes. If the pass is a good value with TT2 SBNO, then that will continue to hold true if TT2 opens next year. And if the pass is not a good value with TT2 SBNO, then don't buy a pass right now.

Endless radio commercials earlier this spring and summer:

"Get your Cedar Point Summer Pass and enjoy unlimited rides on Top Thrill 2, the worlds tallest and fastest triple launch strata coaster!"

There is a chance that your 2024 Summer Pass gets you exactly zero rides on TT2! But, interestingly i do see that the 2025 Gold Passes are now on sale for $99, which also includes the remainder of the 2024 season.

Scott Cameron:

But what if they aren't certain "This likely won't open again this year?" Why would they make such an announcement unless they really knew? Perhaps now that the season is winding down they may, but my guess is they're still hopeful it will open. I understand where you're coming from, but what if they made that announcement and then it did end up opening this year? I think then a whole different group would be upset. I feel like they're basically in the "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situation

Well it’s already been established that it doesn’t hurt the parks attendance so I think they should say something. I mean Zamperla looks like they are still not near even the testing phase. It’s August 19th. Sure I don’t know their actual plans or what’s wrong with it. But they’re still taking seats apart. I don’t have to be an expert to know that’s not good.

I say an update with a most likely will not open would be great. It doesn’t really matter to me anymore. But I can see where they’re coming from seeing as the quote “not a summer long thing” was said by the guy in charge of communication.

The "not a summer long" comment was made off the cuff, and I'm guessing under what we now know to be a false pretense. I suspect when the ride went down, CP asked for a timeline, and Zamperla probably gave them something along the lines of July to have the ride back in operation. If that were the case, it's reasonable to speculate that the ride would be opened certainly by August or September at the latest, and therefore to comment as such. And Zamperla made some modifications, did testing, etc. that would indicate they thought they had a resolution. However clearly that was not the case, and here we are. This is a lot of speculation, but it seems reasonable based on what we've seen & heard (and not heard).

You summed it up well and I agree with that assessment. I also think Zamperla and therefore CP thought it would be re-opened by Mid-July. Around the time Tony made the comment about it not being a summer long type of thing Zamperla was on site and installing the additional plates on the wheel assemblies. From the best information / rumors that we have those plates were supposed to work but at this point it is obvious they did not. Shortly after that initial testing the additional rumors came out that the problem spot was simply transferred from the wheel assemblies to the train frame itself. In my opinion I think we have not received any update simply because they have no update to give.

I agree.

I don’t disagree with you guys. I just see how some people might want a statement. I’m over it and have accepted it will not open this year. And if it does then good for them.

Poor Cedar Point. They just can’t catch a break lately with new attractions. Their track record lately has be abysmal. Of course, some of that was beyond their control like the 150 celebration postponed due to the pandemic…but several attractions lately just haven’t worked out like they had hoped:

1. Forbidden Frontier
2. 150 Celebration
3. Town Hall Museum re-do
4. Snake River Expedition
5. TT2

It appears the only successful project as of late has been the Boardwalk/Grand Pavilion.

FWIW, yesterday and today I couldn't see the silver train anywhere on the ride site.