Cedar Point new security checkpoint

Yes. That.

A stopped clock is still right twice a day.

MichaelB said:

I thought all those "rent-a-wand" security personnel were useless and just a show.

They are.

Had all the terrorists been stopped, well, then you'd have a case. But they weren't.

If the security involved were trained, professional security personnel, or even police -- then they failed.

If the security involved were folks hired at a low wage to wear security costumes, then they got lucky, stopping one person.

As much as you want to insist that it is nothing more than a false sense of security, they do in fact have their place as demonstrated in this account.

What account? You didn't provide a citation. A security system that allows most terrorists free access to their targets isn't doing a satisfactory job.

... does little to nothing to actually protect anyone.

May I direct your attention to TSA, the extremely well-funded agency that is demonstrably incapable of catching over 95% of contraband items? Security theater is just that -- theater.

I'd much rather have well-funded, focused security teams targeting actual potential threats than costumed "security" blindly inconveniencing everyone.

And I'm pretty sure the stadium already had extra security and actual law enforcement on hand because of who was in attendance. It wasn't just a few rented security attendants with wands.

You're a real special person aren't you, noggin?

Only one terrorist tried to walk into the stadium and the security stopped him from getting passed the security check point. One tried to get in, and one was stopped. That means it was 100% effective. The man who "invaded his privacy" and ended up being killed did not die in vein. He was not just some part of a security "theater." He was doing his job and potentially saved thousands of lives. Short of a super hero being the one to stop the terrorist at the security check point, nothing could be done due to the fact he had a bomb strapped to him.

You sir, are one despicable human who clearly has no sense of social norms and how to have compassion and respect for people who are grieving and distressed.

You're not addressing anything Noggin has said, just stating that one person was stopped from getting in who still blew up the bomb outside. I believe that point was made about the CP security theater, that it would be easy to harm those waiting outside, why bother going inside? And, you can hardly compare the security that was in place because a head of state was attending to normal security at a stadium. They probably had France's version of the secret service in place.

MichaelB said:
You sir, are one despicable human who clearly has no sense of social norms and how to have compassion and respect for people who are grieving and distressed.

No, you sir are the person with no respect. It's a ludicrous notion to suggest that someone here is going to articulate a point or opinion that disrespects the lives that were lost in these attacks. Likewise, Noggin's post had nothing to do with disrespect for those lives. His post was in direct response to your post. To disagree with someone is one thing, but to accuse them of something they are clearly not doing is truly disrespectful. And to label them as a "despicable human" is way out of line.

Agreed. Watch your tone.

IMO...bad 'people' will find a way in, to any venue or arena, to do ANY kind of harm that they're driven to. Any corporation, company, organization or the like, have every right to put any type of security in place..following all government guidelines/ laws are being adhered to. Yep, a 'security theater' type of coverage may be time consuming, at any area, venue, or tourist area. But honestly, time should always be allowed for such things to take place...regardless of planes , trains, automobiles or our favorite amusement parks. Metal detectors are useless in detecting chemical weapons correct? Did anybody see that parent not stopping their child from sitting on a public wet toilet seat....probably not. Or the junkies puking in the water fountain? It's a risk we all take going in public, any day or anywhere.

Every business can set up whatever type of security they wish, absolutely. My objection to what I call security theater that it doesn't make us more secure and diverts resources away from actively focusing on actual persons of interest*.

A woman in a security costume with a stick to probe bags with at the gate won't stop junkies puking in the water fountain; an active security force can likely intervene with that junkie.

*I refer you to previous rants about the grossly incompetent TSA, which also does nothing to make us safer.

You seem to think all security is incompetent...

Many security agencies do hire former police/military forces, and I know many involved. Someone working an event doing security detail may have been security forces for a flight line, an overseas forward operating base, or a missile alert facility. You may just never know.

Disagree. Trained security professionals and police, empowered to detain and arrest malefactors, are one thing. People wearing costumes at the gate, fiddling sticks around bags, are another. They're not incompetent. But they're also not security. I'm sure there are many former police/military etc working as security assistants for TSA. And TSA's record of failure is well-known.

So, you think a deterrent is unnecessary?

I'm assuming you never lock your car or home, as those really do very little to protect you.

The people wearing "costumes" may know how to do the job, but are told to do something else. Did you ever think this is a management or training dilemma, and not the person in the "costume" dilemma? Many a times during my military career the saying "do as I say, not as I do" came up, and I ended up doing things way differently than we normally would have or should have.

Perhaps until you know all information about the security services provided on point I wouldn't critique so harshly. Do they use plain clothes officers, have they attempted to get something past the gate using one of their own before. What backup measures are available there. Are they looking for a credible threat they received and letting others that don't match a description pass through easier? Is it a random deterrent measure to thwart off someone plotting to do something stupid that's watching the entrance?

Unless you can answer one of those questions, your insight and comparing paid security and police forces at an amusement park to the TSA is really not even a good comparison at all.

I think the main point here is that CP has a competent, well trained and effective police department that has done a commendable job of providing security on the peninsula. For that reason, I find the security theater to be an unnecessary inconvenience and even so far as an indecency in the way guests are treated. Of course they have a right to run the theater, it is a shame that they find it desirable.

They may have had reasons to post security, and those we will never know.

thedevariouseffect said:

The people wearing "costumes" may know how to do the job, but are told to do something else.

Disagree. Perhaps we're disagreeing on the background of people providing security. When I refer to security theater, I'm referring to companies hiring people at a low wage to wear costumes and engage in activities that won't actually prevent a serious incident.

I think you're taking my security theater references to refer to trained security personnel or former or off-duty police officers.

Many a times during my military career the saying "do as I say, not as I do" came up, and I ended up doing things way differently than we normally would have or should have.

I respect you for your service -- but military service and low wage staff wearing costumes are two different things.

Is it a random deterrent measure to thwart off someone plotting to do something stupid that's watching the entrance?

I'm uncomfortable with "random deterrent measures" that infringe American civil liberties.

Unless you can answer one of those questions, your insight and comparing paid security and police forces at an amusement park to the TSA is really not even a good comparison at all.

I make a distinction between costumed security and paid security or police forces. Two different things.

thedevariouseffect said:

They may have had reasons to post security, and those we will never know.

When the checkpoints were in place, they were more often than not inconsistent. They weren't there in the morning, but were in the afternoon. Or vice versa. Or they'd be present at one gate, but not at any others. That very strongly suggests they weren't responding to anything specific. And if they were, they were stunningly incompetent in their response.

In either case, the point is that it's nothing more than security theater.

There's an article in today's paper about the terrorist who got caught.

The article says he was a decoy to draw a response and open up other areas for attack.

Living in N.J.,right near N.Y.C., there are a lot of concerns about terrorist attacks.

One big problem is,if your goal is to kill a lot of people, you don't need to get into an event.

Using C.P. as an example,just have a suicide bomber in the crowd at the main entrance right before the park opens.

When you live in an open society it is very hard to stop the kind of attack that took place in Paris.

The best (only) hope is intelligence to identify and stop threats before they are implemented.

Anything else is just limiting casualties.

Regarding what DJDaemon said: part of my criticism of security theater is that it's not thorough. Using Cedar Point as an example, if security theater is set up at one gate for six hours, that leaves three gates for a person with malicious intent to walk through as a guest. And it has no chance of stopping someone who's delivering goods or works for the park.

They are back at it again "wanding" people and complete bag searches at the resort entrance. My brother sent me the text, as he is there with his kids right now staying at Breakers

Might make a good question for the Coastermania Q&A, although just like every other question at events like that, there probably won't be a straight answer.