Beverage pricing: They're still not listening

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Seems to me you think Cedar Point is Gods gift to you and should go out of business making sure you have an inexpensive trip. I couldn't disagree more.

That's not at all what I'm saying, and frankly, you're trolling.

I don't expect an inexpensive trip. Hell, I will (and do, often) happily pay large sums of my hard-earned money for things I determine are a reasonable value. I will not, however, pay large sums of money for decidedly mediocre (which is being generous) food. I suspect that, given CP's falling attendance (and Disney's success at increasing their value perception), that I am not alone.

Cedar Fair made 30 times more money in 2009 than they did in 2008 and 2007 put together. Keep your money and whine all you want, the bottom line did just fine without you, $35,000,000 in profit.

^ You gotta love people that will defend anything! Inexpensive isn't the word. Reasonably priced is. How can anyone can defend a $4.50 drink price? If you like the price so much wanna buy us one? lol

Again, Kyle, I don't think you have a firm (or even limp) grasp on what it means to look at things in the long term. Past profit does not guarantee future success. And with dwindling attendance numbers at its flagship park, I'd say it's perfectly reasonable to question their strategy, especially in a down economy.

Kyle2154 said:
Cedar Fair made 30 times more money in 2009 than they did in 2008 and 2007 put together.

But not from food! Or admissions. Or hotels.

Kyle2154 said:
Cedar Fair made 30 times more money in 2009 than they did in 2008 and 2007 put together.

And never mind the fact that their net income in 2009 was down 78% from 2005. Yeah, CF is kickin ass and takin names, all right!

There also is the possibility that more are sold when they cost less. I am only one person but if drinks were $2, I would probably get a few of them as opposed to 0.

Cedar Fair gushed money then and they're still making money now. $35 mil in profit is just fine in a market where profits are few and far between.

Past profit is a better indicator than your "OMG pop is $5, park must be doing badz!"

Again, a business, not "DJ's park to enjoy free drinks".

Your hyperbole is really adding to the conversation. Thanks for keeping the conversation quality so high!

I think most people expect to pay more at these venues.

That there is merely a profit doesn't tell the entire story. Yes, it's true, Cedar Point can charge as much as they want for anything. They can inflate things like beverages to sell to a "trapped" consumer. And you can point to large profits as a result But there is a question of whether or not this strategy is sustainable. There is a risk that the "disapproval of pricing" will eventually outweigh the "approval of attractions." In fact, some would argue there's evidence of that now.

If you think this is an argument of "let them make as much money as possible" versus "I want a 59¢ Big Gulp," you are greatly oversimplifying the debate.

SuperNitroForce said:
There also is the possibility that more are sold when they cost less. I am only one person but if drinks were $2, I would probably get a few of them as opposed to 0.

The goal of a business isn't to maximize the number of units sold. Its to maximize profits. Sure more folks will buy if the drinks are $2 but you lose the revenues from the price decrease from the folks who would have purchased at the higher price. Every business goes through that analysis.

@Walt: I agree, no one knows whether or not Cedar Point charging $5 a pop is going to cost them severley in the long run or just pump out tons of money. People just tend to like the 'it's going to cost them in the long run' argument because it fits better in their personal budget.

I'm not sure it's fair to pigeon-hole an entire side of the argument just because you disagree with it.

Do they have any more Geauga Lakes to sell so they can keep making money? ;)

Hmm, revenue is down 80 million (996 vs 916), EBITDA is down 15.7% (335m vs 299m). The 35 million in "profit" wasn't so much the result of operating profit as it was that they sold off land around Canada's Wonderland. In fact, that they sold it for 53 million and only show a 35 million profit for the year should show you what kind of condition they are really in.

Combine that with the board trying to weasel their way out with a sale, and them now offering a bond sale to raise money and I'd say the company is far from "doing fine".

However, they have the potential to be doing fine (great even). One of the ways to meet that potential is to provide value from more than just the gate. Increase food/drink quality while decreasing price is the best place to start and will have the biggest impact in both short and long term.

$45 to get in the park (less with discounts) is a steal for what is offered. However the raping you take for being hungry or thirsty in the park starts to break down that value perception. Eventually you start to question why you're bothering to visit when your money will go farther at other entertainment destinations.

As has been pointed out before, I can go spend a week at Disney and feel that my money has gotten me much more bang for the buck than even 1 day at Cedar Point. That's a perception that the park needs to change if they want to thrive rather than just survive.

Its obvious that the goal of a business is to make money, you didn't need to tell me that.

@DJ: You're right, that is an over generalization, but to the douche at the counter giving the cashier (who has nothing to do with it) a hard time going "You know what! This is going to put this place out of business!", is it? Or is it going to bring in the next ride that brings in the next 3,000,000 people just like him?

@Juggs: The only problem with the income statement is the interest expense (from the debt), take that away and CF makes a cool $100M every year. The debt is the million (billion?) dollar question.

Kyle - I don't think anyone here is condoning or even suggesting that people hassle the seasonals until prices come down. We know they have nothing to do with pricing and yelling at them/blaming them/making their job harder does nothing to fix the situation.

Well,...note to self. Map out the nearest water fountain.