Beverage pricing: They're still not listening

Operationally, they are doing just fine! The problem is the debt.

This thread turned, quickly, into a thread about how much Cedar Point is not listening and how much high pop/food prices are going to hurt them. I have given you every statistic I can, and they all indicate that Cedar Fair is not only doing well operationally, but comparatively, outpacing the competition at Disney, I can't do anymore than that.

Listen ........

OPERATIONALLY THE ARE NOT DOING JUST FINE!!!.

Per cap spending is down. $4.50 for a soda is just a slap in the face.

I'm done, you're being foolish. I will take EBITDA, Per cap, and Cash Flow over your opinion any day.

Operationally they are fine, Financing and Investing, not so much.

You just go on thinking that fanboy.:)

Take that EBITA and shove it dude. That means nothing because that is not the final figure that really matters. Give me the EAITA.

Took my girlfriend who also has a season pass, on sunday and boy do i have a hole in my wallet now, thanks to beverage prices, that elephant ear and that damn rebound game :D

@ Evil: You don't know what you're talking about. EBITDA is the most important measure for operational (what we are talking about) performance. If you wanna talk about interest/financing, I couldn't agree more, they have taken a beating.

http://www.tcbmag.com/ideasopinions/corneroffice/102270p1.aspx

They may be doing okay operationally now! But eventually the finances WILL catch up and is pretty much there! Budget hacking, trying to cancel coasters, delaying rides, selling new shares, and most importantly, corporate leaders that tried ditching ship. The fact is we don't know the exact health of the company, but these examples don't give me the feeling of WMT or GOOG

Kyle2154 said:
@ Evil: You don't know what you're talking about. EBITDA is the most important measure for operational (what we are talking about) performance.

Please. It's a bull**** metric used to cover up deeper problems, and it's one that the market has responded to in terms of unit price. It has zero to do with how much cash is on hand, how serviceable the debt is or the company's ability to make capital expenditures.

We haven't had an example of this much fanboyism in a long time.

How many oz. do you get for that 4.50 does anybody know? If we are talking about the pop machine price of 3.00 I can live with that. Here at Nationwide Arena and Huntington Park in Columbus I pay 4.75 for that same bottle. I go to one of the Chiller Ice Rinks it is only 1.75, if Cp machines were 2.00 they would have to park a full truck of pop next to the machine and it would never make it in the machines. So if that 4.50 gets me a 32oz fountain drink I would say the price is fair.

As for the subway, prices are outrages, but I would never eat at subway. Now TGI Fridays is another story, we get the same diner here in Columbus as we get at Cp and it is 15$ more at the point. Since they brought in out side restaurants there has been a fee, they take a cut and that cost more. I would rather see Cp run all there own food service and restaurants and that would help keep the prices down. I don't think it would be much more work but they would have to hire more competent employee's.

AIRTIMELUVR said:
If Cp machines were 2.00 they would have to park a full truck of pop next to the machine and it would never make it in the machines. So if that 4.50 gets me a 32oz fountain drink I would say the price is fair.

Or you can just go park your truck next to the store and get a bottle of pop for just over a buck.

Airtimeluvr I think both Pepsi and Cedar Fair wouldn't mind if this happened.

No I would go back to my room and get that pop that I bought at the store for a buck, that is one reason why we stay on point. I will pay the high room rate so that we can go and relax, take a shower if it's hot, eat, drink and prepare to go back in the park refreshed with a cold one. We spend plenty in the park for fair type food, and souvenir's but we do it cost effectively.

Or you can stay 2 min down the road, pay 1/8 as much for the room, pack a cooler of the sodas and snacks you just bought for a buck at the store, drive 2 min back to the park after relaxing in a just as nice or in most casses better room than breakers after relaxing.

There....you just saved a few hundred dollars, and your only out the 4 min it took you to drive round trip to the hotel.

^You can even leave that cooler in your car, park in the Soak City lot, and come back for a drink when you are right in the middle of the park! Once I had 20 oz. Mountain Dews in the car and walked back in the park with one of them without any problem. Probably because they sell those in the machines and I could have bought it inside, though that was a few years ago and I dont know if you could "get away" with that now.

Jeff said:

djDaemon said:
Disney has a fairly captive audience - one that, it seems, stays on-property at a higher rate than CP's guests. If that's true (and I have no idea if it is), then Disney arguably has a MORE captive audience, yet treats them better. And guess what Disney gets in return? Lots of guests willing to open their pockets (even in a recession).

Which was exactly what I was after, and the reason that I think that...

GoBucks89 said:
Comparing to Disney economics is apples to oranges.

...is nonsense.

I make the comparison because I am a customer of both and I do perceive a completely different value proposition. I consider Orlando an enormous sinkhole for my disposable income, and yet, I feel like I'm getting what I pay for there. In no universe will I ever feel like shelling out nearly five bucks for a fountain soda is OK.

But then, soda is free for me at work. Keep buying those computers and Xbox's, please. :)

The differences are nonsense only if you don't understand basic principles of economics. But hey, you get free soda at work so you must be an economics expert. :)

You see value at Disney and don't at Cedar Point. So go to Disney and don't go to Cedar Point. What is so hard about that?

There are a lot of products/services on the market in which I find no value relative to the asking price. I don't complain and whine about them. I just don't buy them. I spent a week at Disney World last year. Food was good. Service was amazing. But the rides (other than 1 or 2) totally sucked. The coasters were an absolute joke. I could go on Disney sites and post threads about how they need to add some real grown up rides. And I could respond to glowing posts about Disney on sites like coasterbuzz about how much the rides suck. But I don't. I just won't ever go back to Disney.

But for some reason, people here like to complain and whine. There are three threads on the first page about drinks and hotel prices. If someone doesn't find value in the CP hotels, they shouldn't stay there. And if you don't like the quality or prices of the food/drink prices, don't buy food or drinks in the park. And if the combination of those things and other issues someone has with the park means they don't find value sufficient to go there, then stop going.

I think the prices of some things at CP are too high for me to find value. I could complain to management about them or start a thread on this board about them. But I don't. I just don't buy them. Would I like to see lower food prices? Sure. But that is true for the price of everything that I buy (and nothing that I sell). The $2/drink difference isn't going to keep me from buying a few drinks when I visit the park, cause me to take steps to avoid buying those drinks or keep me from going to the park at all. For others, it may.

CP certainly understands the concept of demand as a function of price. Reading threads on this board, you would think the concept is something so mysterious and complicated that only arm-chair RCT wizards can understand. So it isn't that the park hasn't heard or listened to complaints about pricing. Its that they have determined that they will maximize profits with the current pricing. They may well be wrong. And those begging for lower prices may be wrong as well.

^ This year should be different as far as the hotels go because they have that build your own resort package. I think that will help with filling up the hotels.

Kyle2154 said:
That doesn't mean it's not working though. Based on the most important operational indicator, Cedar Fair is doing just fine.

Cedar Fair EBITDA - 33.6%
Disney EBITDA - 20.3%

http://finapps.forbes.com/finapps/jsp/finance/compinfo/IncomeStatement.jsp?tkr=DIS

http://finapps.forbes.com/finapps/jsp/finance/compinfo/IncomeStatement.jsp?tkr=FUN

You gotta admit the dude has a point here. Even if you look at Disney's parks and resorts by themselves at operating income it's 13.3% Disney vs 20% Cedar Fair. I still question the wisdom of the high food prices though.

I think the reason some things in the park are high is because the restaurant chain like Subway, Cedar Fair has to pay them to be in they're park. So instead of having that sub for $5.00 your going to be paying like $7-$8 a sub. Part of that money goes to Subway and the other goes to Cedar Fair. I'm sure it's the same for Pepsi. Pepsi and Cedar Fair probably both get a portion from that $3.00 pop somebody buys everyday.

Subway has to pay rent in a strip mall as well.

I would have no issue paying $7 for a footlang at the park. But $13-$14 is just scalping.