announcement date 8/18/15

I visited Geauga Lake as Six Flags Ohio and as Six Flags Worlds of Adventure. I enjoyed those visits, but...

Six Flags overbuilt the park, adding all those coasters and other rides in so few years.

it would be like buying the smallest, lowest-grossing McDonald's and building it out to surpass the world's largest McDonald's down in Orlando -- you could do it, but it's highly unlikely it would work out in your favor.

Looking at what Cedar Fair has done since Ouimet took over -- adding high profile coasters, yes, but also rolling out multi-purpose facilities like Harmony Hall, for example -- I feel confident assuming that Cedar Fair is making the right choices at the right times.

Enthusiasts may see "twisted steel all over", but if Cedar Fair has determined that adding a new coaster product to Cedar Point's market is going to benefit the park, I'm going to give Ouimet and his team the benefit of the doubt.

Buckeyeshaman: a "coaster w VR...put it in a building and poof there you have it" is a ride simulator, which is by now decades-old technology. (I remain unconvinced that you can blindfold people riding a ride and show them a VR version of the ride and have the ride be popular.)

I'd disagree that Cedar Point needs a new woodie "without question".

I think this thing is gonna be fantastic. It might not look like much on those low res videos but I think next year when we see this massive ride so close to the midway everyone's mind will change. The GP will absolutely love this thing and it should have very high capacity. A 220+ 90* drop and at least one massive inversion I'm impressed and excited.

I don't see a woodie coming to the park ever IMO. The GP doesn't seem to flock to them like huge steel coasters. Its associated with being rough and unenjoyable. And within a few years it will be, so CP is pretty much steel coasters from here on out.

I don't consider a RMC a true woodie. Its wood structure is it and it rides on steel I beams not much different than a steel coaster.

I would actually like to see a Premier Rides family type coaster perhaps a racing/dueling ride, along with the vintage flats CF is looking for.

One thing I would like to know if this dive coaster will be quite like Gatekeeper or the loud roar of Raptor and Rougaroo.

noggin said:
Looking at what Cedar Fair has done since Ouimet took over -- adding high profile coasters, yes, but also rolling out multi-purpose facilities like Harmony Hall, for example -- I feel confident assuming that Cedar Fair is making the right choices at the right times.

Enthusiasts may see "twisted steel all over", but if Cedar Fair has determined that adding a new coaster product to Cedar Point's market is going to benefit the park, I'm going to give Ouimet and his team the benefit of the doubt.

Here's the problem with this logic. This is the same formula they've used since 1989. In the process we've lost soo much. Paddlewheel. Oceana. Jungle Larry's. Goodtime Theatre. Space Spiral. Just to name a few.

They usually get a 3% increase in attendance when they build a twisted steel machine--- but there are many that since 1989 who have NOT been catered to, and they stopped coming. They're last record year was 1994 with Raptor.

I'm merely suggesting that if they would use $20 million (the likely investment of Valravn) in a completely new direction- perhaps they would see a 5, maybe 10% increase in attendance. It would be risky, but what if they invested the $20 million in an experience that hasn't been seen before. This b&m dive is nothing new-- to the GP it's just another coaster, they don't kn the difference between hyper, inverted, dive. This is just a repeat of what we've seen since 1989.

I just wish the park would take a risk and invest that $20 million in something besides a twisted steel structure that can be found at other theme parks in the country.

>>>Sorry, folks, I can't seem to correct the editing.....

Tilt-a-Whirl said:

This is the same formula they've used since 1989. In the process we've lost soo much. Paddlewheel. Oceana. Jungle Larry's. Goodtime Theatre. Space Spiral. Just to name a few.

The management now is different from the management then, and I remain impressed by the decisions the current management is making.

And frankly, Cedar Point has a long history of removing attractions. Would you prefer a Cedar Point that has a double Ferris wheel, a Rotor, a Scamper, a Figure-Eight roller tobaggan, but no Corkscrew, no Gemini midway, no waterpark?

"We've" lost so much, but we've also gained Gatekeeper, Power Tower and the ever-popular Dinosaurs.

They're [sic] last record year was 1994 with Raptor.

And? Records are nice, but profits are better.

I'm merely suggesting that if they would use $20 million (the likely investment of Valravn) in a completely new direction- perhaps they would see a 5, maybe 10% increase in attendance.

Perhaps. Frankly, I put more faith in the multi-billion dollar company with a broad team of accountants and analysts than in a tiny number of coaster enthusiasts to make such determinations.

This b&m dive is nothing new-- to the GP it's just another coaster, they don't kn the difference between hyper, inverted, dive. This is just a repeat of what we've seen since 1989.

It is new to most of the people in Cedar Point's market. They mayn't know the difference between coasters that coaster enthusiasts do, but that's no reason to belittle them.

I just wish the park would take a risk...

Businesses don't exist to take unnecessary risks.

... invest that $20 million in something besides a twisted steel structure that can be found at other theme parks in the country.

That can be found at but two parks in the country, neither of which compete with Cedar Point.

Enjoy your dive coaster, Noggin. I'll be taking my money to Dreammore resort to ride Lightning Rod. My daughter is 48" and my 18 month year old will love playing on the likely playground that will be installed near the attraction. Enjoy the teenagers and their making out while in line. It'll give a whole new meaning to Valravn... Yum!

Exactly, vote with your wallet. If you like the new additions, come to the park and spend your money there. If not, spend your money elsewhere.

I don't see a problem with the park playing to it's strengths. If you don't like that then great, go elsewhere, shorter lines for me. No need to get salty.

Can't please everyone lol

I went to all but 3 Cedar Fair parks this year, and there's are a few record breaking reasons Cedar Point is the best. It's not like Cedar Point is going the Magic Mountain route either, they've added Celebration Plaza, the Gemini Midway, an incredible array of lights, Dinos, the new Hotel Breakers, Quaker Steak & Lube, updated beach, Wicked Twister Midway, GateKeeper plaza, etc.

Do I wish they were adding a record breaking RMC like Dollywood? Hell yeah. But I'll vote with my wallet. I'm voting Cedar Fair (Platinum pass) and Dollywood.

Noggin, can I come enjoy the Dive Coaster with you?

I'll also go to Dollywood...that way I can enjoy both with my wallet!

Wait, if I'm voting with my wallet and I go to both Dollywood and Cedar Point......does that make me a liberal? :P

Also, I'll join you 2 in that line for that there Diver coaster.....if you don't mind.

Long live the Valravn, King of the Dives...

I'll be in that line as well, and will vote with my wallet and purchase our family platinum passes once again for next season. We are very happy with what has been added, changed, improved over the last several years. If one can't see all of the additional things CP has to offer for families you simply aren't looking.

I don't know why people are refusing to go to the park because they don't like ONE ride that's there. I mean come on, if you seriously hate the park so much that you won't go because the new attraction doesn't fit to your liking, then you're typing in the wrong forum.

I can't believe how much backlash there is over a coaster that hasn't been built or even announced yet.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
Enjoy your dive coaster, Noggin. I'll be taking my money to Dreammore resort to ride Lightning Rod. My daughter is 48" and my 18 month year old will love playing on the likely playground that will be installed near the attraction. Enjoy the teenagers and their making out while in line. It'll give a whole new meaning to Valravn... Yum!

Adiós, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I'm commenting not to be contentious but I understand Tilt-a Whirl's opinions, it's what many of us have complained about. All these other improvements they've done are really nice, but aren't major rides. I'm glad they've made use of the beach, nicer shows, nicer atmosphere on Gemini midway. We don't stay at Breakers but I'm glad they've improved it. Dinos is quite forgettable, though. Frankly, this family isn't excited about a dive coaster nor a gamer dark ride. We are going to take a break next year from our passes to do other things. We haven't made much use of the passes this year due to either the rain first half of summer or other obligations. I know they're probably going to go up another $16 next year anyway for Platinum which will make the passes almost $200 apiece, way too much for casual users when we're up at the lake. If they offered a gold pass option like they do at Kings Island, we'd go ahead and do it for our casual use but as it is, a platinum pass is double the cost of a gold pass. A friend of mine in Cincinnati got gold passes for the first time this year and was shocked how much we paid for our platinum. Anyway, lesser lines for all of you, right? We'll be back sometime, but not sure when. It seems there is a limit on adrenaline for us and I think everyone is burnt out. I don't think anyone here would understand it but I thought I'd express our thought processes on the matter anyway. Hope to get more use of the passes this fall at least. Maybe we'll try other parks that offer different experiences like Knoebels or Dollywood, but Cedar Point is our backyard park. I'm interested in what's left in their "master plan", though.

Tilt-a-Whirl and Funhouse backwards: pretty much anyone on Ponitbuzz is not part of the park's primary demo. As noted, your families aren't the families the park seems to be targeting.

I want to preface these comments by stating the following: I love coasters. Coasters and me are like this--you can't see it, but I'm crossing my forefinger and thumb together as a visual metaphor for how close we are. Coasters? Can't get enough of 'em. The more the merrier. Me gots nothing against coasters.

And I think this the presumed attraction Valravn will be a good investment and a fine addition to Cedar Point's Valhalla-esque coaster lineup. (See what I did there? Valravn...Valhalla...oh, never mind.)

That being said, it seems to me that there are two glaring and overlapping deficiencies in the park that are at the center of the argument some folks here are driving at. The first is family-friendly rides. Yeah, the topic has been beat to death more times than Phil Connors in a Punxsutawney bar. There simply aren't enough rides that parents, grandparents and wee little ones can ride together AND enjoy together. Recent attraction removals have not helped this deficiency, despite the addition of Pipe Scream and Lake Erie Eagles. An amusement park that thrives in the long term must be known not only for thrills, but family appeal as well. Cedar Point is still behind the eight ball in this regard. There is much ground to make up.

The second issue is the somewhat more undefinable quality of 'magic'--astonishment, wonder, glee.The kind of emotional reaction that leaves a permanent mark in the psyche of a kid--old or young. Sure, Disney and Universal have the kind of beaucoup bucks to throw at attractions that elicit this elusive entity by the hundreds of millions. But smaller parks with much lesser budgets seem to succeed at this aim too. Think Timber Mountain Log Ride and Calico Mine Ride, direct from CP's sister park, Knotts. Think Lost Coaster at Indiana Beach. Blazing Fury at Dollywood. Noah's Ark at Kennywood. Every haunted house ride and walk-through ever built. The example I most fondly remember and miss still is Enchanted Voyage at Kings Island. Maybe the label best distilled from the above list is 'immersive whimsy'. Dark rides tend to excel at this, but the quality isn't exclusive to the category. Just think about the charm that something as simple as Lazytown Sportacopters (or whatever Peanuts moniker its operating under nowadays) adds to Planet Snoopy at Kings Island. And maybe some sort of virtual reality experience on Valravn will capture a jot of this, but the jury remains out.

I guess what I'd like to see is more evidence of the park thinking outside of the box (track).

Jesus.

You people are never satisfied with anything.

I'm satisfied...... that it leaked. :)

Seriously, two* coasters double leak in a row now!? Published memo then a breach of website/app. Fingers crossed a RMC will be lucky number three in 2018!

The ride looks epic. Dive machines are one of B&M's best models. It will be very popular and move lots of people.

* I don't count TCFKAB or Pipe Scream as new coasters, or a coaster at all as it pertains to the latter.