2016? Who Cares! It's All About 2017 to 2030!

Nor does the GP, or those of us with LP units

I would much rather see a popular ride that opens on time, everytime, delivers ROI, is enjoyed by all, and paves the way for future expansion.

Not everything will be an enthusiast machine, nor needs to be. This will bankrupt a park. See KK, they're slowly biting the bullet.

I'm not sure what that means, but if so it wouldn't be the first time.
I think KK's bread and butter is the water park.

Is Kentucky Kingdom not doing well? I thought the relaunch was a success?

I had heard the same.

I'd love to see an RMC Mean Streak open between 2017 and 2018, and a B&M flyer a few years later. RMC will give Cedar Point a break and bring in a roller coaster with a new look and feel from your standard B&M. But a B&M flyer really seems like a great fit, flying above the river STR was formally built above, dodging trees and some of Millennium Forces supports. Yes, obviously trees would need to be removed and land cleared, but that doesn't mean plant life can't be replanted and mature trees transplanted once construction is completed. Even head/foot chopper effects added like we've seen in MFs tunnels and GKs keyholes would be a fun element.

Those of you wishing for CP to install a B&M flyer should count how many flying coasters CF has installed chain-wide to gauge the likelihood of them installing any in the future.

Same goes for all of you wanting a Dive Coaster....oh wait 🙄

That's a little different though. No other chain except Busch Gardens had ever built a Dive Coaster in the United States.

B&M Flyers have been around for a very long time and Cedar Fair has never added one through all the opportunities they've had. I think they see poor capacity as a main reason, and further, I don't think that space is the best place for a flyer. I still think a flume would be best in that spot, especially one with dark ride elements.

JW Addington said:

Same goes for all of you wanting a Dive Coaster....oh wait 🙄

No, as Sparty points out, there are other factors at play. Flyers have terrible capacity and also - perhaps most importantly - don't have the reputation of being popular. Sure, some people clamor for them, but these seem to be the same people that think a 500' coaster is a good idea.

Now, this is not to say the park won't ever install one. But to think they'd do so before filling the park's other, more obvious needs? That's a pipe dream, I think.

I've never been to a park with a B&M flyer, but looking at Wikipedia Millennium Force has a capacity of 1,300 PPH, TTD has a capacity of 1,000 PPH, and Valravan has a capacity of 1,200 PPH. The Superman flyer clones at Six Flags have a capacity of 1,100-1,500 PPH, Tatsu has a capacity of 1,600 PPH, and Manta has a capacity of 1,500 PPH. I know Wikipedia isn't the most reliable, so my info could be off. But it seems as through capacity wise there on par with any other coaster.

Theoretical capacity and actual capacity are 2 very different things.

Mind if you explain?

Through my experience with Superman: Ultimate Flight at Six Flags Great Adventure, I'd say it has atrocious capacity... for a B&M. Even if the line is short it always ends up being one of the longest waits in the park. This is mainly due to the slow loading and unloading process accompanied with flying coasters and a single loading station. They are popular rides for sure. People, including myself, enjoy the idea of the flying position. One problem with Superman is it only runs two trains which limits capacity. Rides like Tatsu at Six Flags Magic Mountain and Manta at Seaworld Orlando have dual stations which definitely helps. If Cedar Point installed a flying coaster, they would most likely build a dual station to help capacity. If I recall, the reason Cedar Fair never built a flying coaster is because Mr. Kinzel didn't particularly enjoy them. With Ouimet in charge, I'd say there is a greater probability. Who knows right? I do like the idea of a flying coaster over Millennium Island though. They could really play around with the lagoon and the trees of Millennium Island.

The park I visit most is Six Flags Great America, and the longest line at the park is consistently Superman: Ultimate Flight due to low actual capacity and 3 minutes + between dispatches. The actual capacity for SUF clones and Tatsu on slow days is between 600 and 800 riders per hour.

There's not really much to explain, but:

Theoretical capacity is based upon having perfect dispatch intervals, full trains, no stacking each and every time. They take the number of riders per train and multiply by the amount of dispatches a ride can have in 1 hour (calculated by ride time/midcourse, etc..)

Actual capacity is based upon the speed of the crew, the amount of time it takes the train to load, assuming the ride is always running all available trains, etc..

Cedar Point and Disney have always reigned supreme in the "cranking out trains" department, but some rides aren't as easy to actually run like that.

Think of it another way. When it opened, Mantis should have had the same capacity as Raptor, seeing as how they both load 32 riders per train and ran 3 trains.

However, the actual capacity of the ride was awful and not even close to Raptor because it isn't as easy to get into a standup seat and get it checked. Raptor is super easy. Sit down and put your seatbelt on. Mantis was make sure you're standing straight up, feet to the back of the car, and make sure your friend isn't being stupid and completely bending their knees while the seats are being locked. Crews at Mantis would constantly have to adjust the seats due to stupid riders, which in turn wastes a ton of time and subtracts from the theoretical capacity.

Then of course, Cedar Point decided not use the third train so as not to stack as much, and there goes more of your theoretical capacity out the window.

I can see the same being an issue for a flyer, although I admittedly have never been on a B&M. I have been on a couple Vekomas and they both had truly terrible capacity, especially Nighthawk at Carowinds.

Alan Schilke, also the designer of RMC coasters, originally devised his full sized 4D coaster concept as having half the course being dedicated to the controlled flipping/spinning, and the 2nd half devoted to a prone flying coaster experience similar to B&M or Vekoma flyers using shinguards that close and lock at an MCBR.

Obviously SFMM decided when building X/X2 to keep the full coaster as a 4D flipping experience. But since there are now several orders for the smaller S&S 4D free spins, Cedar Point might want to finally one up Magic Mountain and everyone else with a 4,500 ft or so long S&S blended 4D/flying coaster, possibly breaking the 250 ft tall mark to outdo X2 and Eejanaika. This might be especially tempting to Cedar Point if they are extremely pleased with Alan Schilke's work on the RMC makeover of MS.

Ah, I was thinking with getting into the flying and unflying position would add time on. Anyway I just wanted to say in response to Sparty42, while I do see the point that we haven't seen Cedar Fair Install a flyer yet, as well as the fact they've been out for a while. That doesn't exactly mean flyers out of the question, the first Dive Machine Oblivion opened in 1998, the first Dive Machine added in the CF chain opened in..... 2016. Meanwhile the First flyer opened in 2000, although B&M started their own variant in 2002. Just because we haven't seen one yet doesn't mean It couldn't happen. As for a log flume, as much as I do love them, seeing CP remove both of the ones they had, for rides significantly better, then STR which offered a similar experience to a log flume, makes me think odds are they won't be bringing back another one. CPs tight on land, and to bring back a ride they've had 3 of, while possible, seems rather unlikely.

I just don't see the market for a flyer honestly. The last one made in the United States was Manta in 2009. Even Six Flags has given up on the design with 3 Superman:Ultimate Flights from 2003 and Tatsu in 2006. Those are the only B&M Flyers in existence right now.

Besides, don't you think they have enough data to tell them not to build one when they have Firehawk and Nighthawk in both Kings Island and Carowinds? They're low capacity machines and I'm guessing that unless they come up with a better way to load trains and a better, more comfortable experience, this ride type just isn't going to be making a comeback.

A flume, however, when done correctly can be a huge hit. I know I'd ride something that didn't get me completely soaked every time I went on. I rarely ride SRF or TC just because of that factor (even though the last trip to CP I did get on both multiple times because we went on the hottest day of the year). So something that appeals to a dark ride crowd with great elements but still gives me the feeling of a great flume like White Water Landing would be very popular with the GP, I think. Not to mention it would fit in so well tucked back where Shoot the Rapids was.

^^ I hope you mean those are the only B&M flyers in existence in AMERICA. They have built 11 of them including one that opened this year at Universal Studios in Japan.

http://rcdb.com/r.htm?ot=2&ml=6805

I have enjoyed every flyer I've been on and Tatsu is one of my favorite rides. Would I love Point to build one? Yes! Will they? Who knows? I see an RMC Mean Streak, a dark ride and a GCI woodie being added to Point before a flyer. I personally would much rather see a Mack spinner like Cobra's Curse or a family coaster like FireChaser Express added too before a flyer.