Why'd they ax the log ride?

At least both Thunderhawk coasters suck. :)

halltd said:
having five Space Mountains is totally different than Dorney having a White Water Landing. Disney's Space Mountains are, for all intents and purposes, the same ride.

Well, the Space Mountain in Paris has a launch and two inversions. Hardly the same ride!

Dorney's WWL is a flume ride, even though it is a splash down ride, so why not have the same name? The name fits fine for both rides.

You must've missed the part where I said "Yes, I know they are all slightly different, but the concept and overall theming are the same." If you want to be technical, the Space Mountain in Paris is called "Space Mountain: Mission 2". So, it doesn't even have the same name as the other four.

Regardless though, Disney's parks are meant to be the same. Besides the Magic Kingdom (for very specific reasons), all of the parks are called Disneyland. Most of the lands even have the same names, with the same rides in them. So, the parks are basically the same. That in itself is reason enough for their rides to have the same names.

Dorney, on the other hand, has nothing major in common with Cedar Point except for its current owner. Why didn't they name Talon, Raptor? Steel Force could've been Magnum XL-200 (they're even the same color). Dominator could've been Power Tower - again, same color scheme! They could've even named Skyhawk, Screamin' Swing. Those examples have WAY more in common than the two White Water Landings.

When it comes down to it, does it really matter?

The average person who goes to CP and/or Geauga Lake will never make it out to Dorney Park or really any of the other CF parks. If the name fits for a ride at a park, then name it that.

Exit, what are you talking about? That makes perfect sense. You know we can't have that around here. ;)

I agree that it really doesn't make a diff. if rides are named the same thing but in different parks.

Not to mention, when they purchased Geauga Lake, there wasn't a whole lot of time for trademarks and the legal trail surrounding giving the rides new names. I guess someone just figured that it'd be best to give them names they already owned and call it a day.

If you guys really think branding doesn't mean anything, I hope you never run a company.

If CF didn't expect people to go to multiple properties, why are they even offering a Maxx pass? Oh, that's right, they WANT people to go to multiple properties because they'll make more money. How silly of them.

With that logic, "does it really matter" how much passes and parking cost? Or, for that matter, where parking stickers go? Of course it does. "When it comes down to it," EVERY decision a company makes affects its bottom line. No many how insignificant it may seem to the "average guest."

Geauga Lake? Don't you mean Dorney Park? I know that when Cedar Fair bought Geauga Lake, they had to change most of the ride themes, but I don't know about Dorney.

^^Once again, I really think you're the only one who cares if more than one ride is named the same thing. If anything, the "branding" works in their favor because people would be familiar with a ride name if they did get out and visit.

As for the issue with the Maxx pass, I'm pretty sure it's still not meant to get people from Cleveland to go to Allentown, Muskegon or out to Valleyfair. It seems more like a benefit to those in Ohio with 3 parks in close proximity, and to those who might wind up in California. It'll get them down to Knott's Berry Farm if they're already out that way.

Honestly, what do they have to lose with the Maxx pass? It gives the same benefit their passes have always had, but it costs $35 more.

Ltparkmaster, no... I mean Geauga Lake. When CF took over GL, they needed to rename rides in a hurry. They took a couple of names of Dorney Park rides (Thunderhawk and Dominator, for example) and gave them to existing rides. It's probably the right thing to do in that situation, being that they had about 0 time to get the names changed, and the trademarks were already in place, thanks to them being used at Dorney.

Well, at least I'm not the "only" one who cares. Ensign was displeased with the names as well. I'm sure more people think its a

Besides, just because something is "easier" or the "general public" won't notice, doesn't mean its the right thing to do.

Do you also think its acceptable to just built clone coasters at all your parks? No one will notice and its cheaper and easier to do that, right? So, why not?

Yes, why not? If it makes good business sense, brings in people with a smaller investment, I sure do think it's a good idea.

Your issue is that you don't like anything that's the same, whether it be chain restaurants or roller coasters. Unfortunately, there's not really anything out there in the amusement industry that is really all that unique, save for maybe wooden coasters.

Honestly, I'd hate see the day you were in charge of an amusement park. You might put so much effort into making it unique that you would alienate a lot of your [potential] customer base.

I'm sure Tim and I aren't alone in this. Same-name branding has only one plus for a park chain: money saved on trademarks and legal protections. This represents a very minor cost to a business whose annual revenues run in the hundreds of millions or billions.

When I posted my previous entry about seeing Thunderhawk at Dorney, I actually had to get on the Dorney web site to make sure my memory was correct. I could easily remember Talon, Hydra, even Laser. But co-branding only causes confusion, especially when the rides are distinctly different. I wouldn't be surprised if this is even an issue for upper managers. White Water Landing? Which one? Are we still talking about CP or Dorney?

If I tell you how much I love Top Gun, do you even know what I'm talking about? But if I say I rode Millenium Force last weekend, case closed.

This is not a huge issue. I put in my Pet Peeve folder. ;)

That's my point, though. It only matters to people "in the know" about these places. Most of the time, people don't call rides by their "correct" names anyway. You'll talk to someone and hear them refer to Batman: the Ride at SFGrAdv as "The Batman at Six Flags" and that might annoy some of you, but again, it's really one of the least important things in the grand scheme of things.

I don't get how it's so hard to see things from a non-enthusiast perspective (I don't mean that in a bad way, I really just don't understand it...). I get that there's certain things that people like to see in amusement parks. It doesn't mean it's the end of the world, and that everyone is going to start hating your park because your coaster shares a name with another one 500 miles away that most may or may not hear of or see in their lifetime.

I love how it's said that things like removing X-Flight are "bad for business" or they "going to cause an attendance drop" simply because that's the way the poster views it. There's a difference between reality and the "ideal amusement park" and unfortunately, reality isn't always what some want.

I don't think it matters to just enthusiasts. The world is shrinking because of the ease to travel, information, etc... I would have agreed with you if we were talking about the same thing maybe 10 years ago when people may not have even known about Dorney Park. However, when CP advertises their other parks on the park map, they obviously want you to go there and pay money. Hell, they even put "other park coupons" in the CP mailer. However, if a non-enthusiast saw that ad or coupon, briefly looked up the park and saw all rides with names they recognized, I'd argue they would be less likely to travel to that park. They'd assume the park was the "same" and just not see the benefit in going. "I can ride White Water Landing (not really a good example now, but you get the idea), Dominator, Thunderhawk, etc... in my own back yard - Why do I need to drive all the way to Dorney to ride them?" An enthusiast would know they were different, but the "average guest" would not unless they did a lot of research on the park. Like you said, they don't care all THAT much, so they just skim.

Believe it or not, I think this issue is beyond seeing it from an enthusiast perspective. Like you, I bet most enthusiasts don't care. But, I bet it would confuse the general public and not in a good way. Cedar Fair is not on the same brand recognition level that Disney is, so I don't think it works the same. Like Ensign said, names don't cost the same as say actual rides do. So, its not like we're talking about a huge expense here. Its all about the details here. If you don't think about the details of a decision and only look at the "big picture," you're bound to miss something very easy to see.

I really think Six Flags would make more money from repeat guests of they named their "clone" rides different things. Then, from an average guest perspective, those rides would be different to them and would encourage them to "park hop". That's really my point here. Enthusiasts know the ride is identical, but the average guest/general public probably don't. But, they can recognize a name as being the same.

I think part of the issue between names at GL and DP came down to time. Sure it wouldn't cost a lot to reserve new names and use them, however CF had days to get GL ready for opening after the purchase. They used what they had. After that season, would it really have made sense for them to change all the names again? They are trying to build consistency with the park (not to mention destroy the old reputation and rebuild a good one) and changing the names every year isn't going to do that. I know that would have been the last name change, but the non-enthusiast doesn't know that.

As for one or two rides in the chain sharing a name (i.e. the WWLs). Not that important. If I get up tomorrow and find that CF has renamed all the rides at ValleyFair to match Dorney, then I think I might start to be worried. But a couple rides having similar or identical names in a chain with 12 parks isn't that high on my list of worries.

^ Exactly. It's not really a big deal.

And I still think you're one of the very few that cares.

Most people wouldn't care less if every coaster int he world was named "The Roller Coaster", so long as it was something for them to ride and have fun on.

I think we've lost the topic here...who cares what a ride is called? CP doesn't have a leisure log flume ride anymore & I'm looking for pictures of the "Mill Race" covered with soap from 1976. Thanks...

That's no more on topic than the discussion we've been having. And its been a pretty good discussion so far.

Ensign Smith said:
I agree with you 100%. My closest park is GL, so when I visited Dorney for the first time this summer, I was surprised and displeased to find myself riding... Thunderhawk. (Incidentally, one of my least favorite classic woodies.)

This would be one habit CF would be wise to avoid picking up from Paramount and Six Flags. I mean, how hard is it coming up with a name?

Thunderhawk at Dorney was the first Thunderhawk. I rode it back in the late 80's.

True. But I was relating my experience in the order that it occurred: 1. Thunderhawk at Geauga Lake, 2. Thunderhawk at Dorney. A non-enthusiast wouldn't care which came first, only that some 'other' park copied his favorite ride at 'his' park.

Since Dorney's came first, GL's should be the one to have its name changed. Since we don't want the transition to be too jarring or confusing, I suggest CF takes it in gentle stages. Like this:

1. Thunderhawk
2. John "Thunderhawk" Mellencamp
3. John Mellencamp

In case anybody here was around in the eighties. ;)
*** Edited 11/29/2006 4:12:07 PM UTC by Ensign Smith***