Why I'm Mad At Cedar Point

The first sentence rings hollow if the rest of the letter is 180 degrees opposed in tone.

Fact: the ride manufacturer's new requirements.

Fact: we are continuing to train our hosts and hosteses.

Fact: striving to make every guest visit a world class experience.

All of that is hollow? If everything in that letter was said but two comp tickets were inside would the letter somehow suddenly have NOT rung hollow? *** Edited 6/10/2004 4:05:47 PM UTC by Chief Wahoo***

Note that I haven't received one of these letters, and am going by what I've read here and elsewhere.

While the canned response does express the Park's "sorrow", as in "we are sorry", it does not express "remorse" as in "we can do better." Some of the letters suggested that guests make allowances for ride operators who are "new". That's just not okay.

It's not about getting something tangible, it's whether or not the letter communicates to guests that CP wants to make things better. Based on reactions here, the letter does not communicate that. What most people take away from the letter is "this is just the way it is. Deal with it." That's simply bad customer relations.

Edit: As it happens, I belive this is just the way it is, and we have to deal with it. Thankfully, I'm not in PR. *** Edited 6/10/2004 4:33:02 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

Ok I have a question. CW said that this is the new requirements from the ride manufacturer. Then why are we not seeing this inch of slack at every other park in the world that has a Intamin hyper or Giga? Why is the modification different at New England? (I don't remember which version of seats SROS has, I know it's not dragsters though):

1). Perhaps it is only for Intamin Giga's and not hypers...unlikely, if so it seems like a pretty sad fix.

Wouldn't Intamin put a PR out and say "hey everyone who has a hyper/giga from us by our order has to ensure each guest has one inch slack".

Maybe they have, if so nevermind a wasted post. But I am not hearing any other park other then CP is doing this. That leads me to believe that CP is doing this on their own or has called Intamin and said "hey would it be ok if we had one inch of slack on the seat belt". Intamin said, Ok sure. Yet they didn't enforce it for all their other rides. It's like CP and only them had enforced an illogical (in my opinion) new set of guidelines to ride MF. And my question is what is the real story there??? *** Edited 6/10/2004 5:01:14 PM UTC by Hooper***

Hooper, other parks are taking the same measures. Knott's Berry Farm and Six Flags Magic Mountain have recently closed coasters to make a fix.

There is no cover up, scandal, or "real story" that we aren't hearing. A man fell out of an Intamin coaster and died this year. There had been previous incidents of someone falling out of an Intamin ride with T-bar restraints. Several factors contributed to the death. Intamin had to make some kind of change...likely due to an Insurance company's demands. The change they came up with had to do with the seat belt length. Parks are now in the awkward position of putting the new procedure into operational use...and in Cedar Point's case at least (and in the case of the California parks) they have no other option BY LAW.

Brian, I can't really say anything else. There is no letter Cedar Point could be writing in response that would satisfy some of these involved short of..."we are sorry, we were wrong, we have gone back to the original way of doing things, we invite you to come back for free and skip the line."

Even then, the embarassment, humiliation, and disappointment some of these folks felt would not automatically go away. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that even if and when all ride operators are being 100% sensitive, the test seat is working properly 100% of the time, and everyone on the planet understands what they might encounter when they go to get in line...there will STILL be people upset, hurt, and incapable of accepting the situation.

If anything, there is now a group of people who have a greater appreciation and understanding for those people who have always been too big to ride certain rides. It has always been an issue. This circumstance is just bringing it to the forefront. I remember telling someone they couldn't ride the Big Dipper back in 1988 when we couldn't get the lap bar down. It was sad, embarassing, humiliating, and the guest was in tears.

Agreed, it's an impossible situation. I'm just wondering whether the canned letter is all it can be.

Their only closing those rides because the califorinia ODSHA (or something like that) forced them too. And Xcelerator seats are not the same as MF which has been brought up. Ah nevermind.

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Chief Wahoo said:
Jeff, I don't disagree with you. But, I am in a position where I must deal with the illogical over the logical on a regular basis (government). And, unfortunately, you come off as an idiot when you are trying to explain away or justify the illogical. I know, I've been there.

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So have I... and it's the reason I don't work in local government anymore. But come on man, you're not that much older than I am. Have you lost all of your idealism to the point where you're willing to just accept things? The world becomes a scary place when you settle for that which doesn't make sense. Brian makes a good point:

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Brian Noble said:
While the canned response does express the Park's "sorrow", as in "we are sorry", it does not express "remorse" as in "we can do better."

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He's right. An organization that prides itself on being the best, providing the highest level of service, is deviating from that tradition.

Well, admittedly, I haven't see the letter either. I guess the could throw in the line, "sorry, we screwed you."

I haven't lost my idealism. In fact, President Reagan's passing has helped me remember a more idealistic time. But, I just don't see how anything we say is going to change Intamin's stand on this issue if Cedar Fair can't even change it. I mean, Cedar Fair is really the Intamin customer. I am sure Intamin realizes they are jeopardizing future sales but it doesn't seem to matter and I would guess that is because the next lawsuit could cost them far greater than the next sale they make.

Imagine what the operations folks are going through on a daily...or even hourly basis right now. If you tell someone to sit in the test seat they could be offended. If you don't and they are told at load that they can't ride they will be offended. If they send a letter and Kinzel or whoever sends a canned response they are offended.

Someone made a good point that I had not thought of previously. If Intamin does in fact retrofit the ride with new restraints/trains then it may in fact open up an entire new set of riders who may not be able to ride when they previously could. We don't really know that, do we?

And, when it comes down to it, I would rather read about people's bad experiences being banned from the ride than being thrown from the ride. If Intamin thinks this is what needs to be done then who am I to say otherwise?

May 29 must have been a bad day for a lot of people.

We have been riding MF since its initial season without being questioned. We have season passes, Joe Cool, parking, the whole bit. Also members of ACE, and were at CP when GEMINI opened, so we are over 50.

May 29 my wife was stopped for the first time anywhere when we tried to enter MF. She is 5'6"+ and weighs about 178, actually a couple of pounds less than last year. She is also a size 16. However, most of her weight is above the belt because she is quite buxom.

First she had to get into the fat line and buckle the belt in the test seat, which she did. Then the attendant said, you have to pull it up (I swear she said) an inch. My wife did that. Actually pulled it up an inch and a half or so. Then she said "No, dear, I said two inches". With that my wife got up and left saying that three inches would be next. I got on the ride alone while my wife waited for me for (the first time in 32 years of marriage) and I see no reason why she couldn't have gotten on. The belts seemed the same as last year on me.

In this case, I believe the attendant at the entrance of the queue was also looking at age as a factor. And I don't know who that attendant was working for, but she was middle age and did not have any kind of CP uniform or identification visible. My guess might be she was associated with Intamin.

No uniform and no badge? I find that odd. Even Mr. Kinzel wears his nametag when he is in the park.

The guy was probally a bad apple, I haven't been to CP this year but usually their is one jerk who is on MF. And for a solution to all of this that is pissing alot of people off, how about they put ankle braces on each seat, but unlike SRoS, if you can't get the inch of slack, you have to put on the ankle braces.

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Brian Noble said:

While the canned response does express the Park's "sorrow", as in "we are sorry", it does not express "remorse" as in "we can do better." Some of the letters suggested that guests make allowances for ride operators who are "new". That's just not okay.

It's not about getting something tangible, it's whether or not the letter communicates to guests that CP wants to make things better. Based on reactions here, the letter does not communicate that. What most people take away from the letter is "this is just the way it is. Deal with it." That's simply bad customer relations.

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I agree. The park seems to be the ones looking for sympathy from the guest, not the other way around. This is the way I have interpreted the parks stance on the issue through those letters and statements in the press.

There is nothing wrong with this. Your “extreme” size is causing all these problems. We are not looking for a solution to make things better We don’t understand your humiliation. You should be happy that you cannot ride because you are now safe. We expect you to come back, so here’s a list of other rides you cannot ride.

Now, we know there is something wrong with this whole issue and something needs to be done. Most of these people are not of extreme size (I.e. servo said she was a size 10) and labeling the like that is wrong. They haven’t even stated they are trying to do anything to help the situation, such as working with the manufacture to fix the “problem.” Also, the list at the end expecting people to come back and be further humiliated or not be able to ride other rides is somewhat arrogant.

Something like the following would be more appropriate I think. Keep in mind this in a abridged summary, and further details would be required.

Dear Valid Guest

We regret your experience with our two premier rides. In an unfortunate circumstance, the manufacture had ordered us to make adjustments to the safety system, and under state law we must comply. We understand your experience and humiliation in the matter, so we are working our best with our staff to make your experience as best as possible under the current conditions. We are also working with the manufacturer to address the situation, so in the future we can accommodate you safely again. Again, we regret your experience with us, and as soon as we can work out these problems we hope you will join us again.

Can someone help me please? Did they actually reduce the lenght of the MF's belts, or are they just enforceing a 1" rule, with the same belts as last year? I have ridden MF many times, although the belt was tight on me last year. Do you forsee problems for me?

I am one of the exceptionally large people, but I have always gotten on MF. I was kicked off the WT last year due to a large chest and shoulders, but also rode it 4 times that day, the ride op didn't know how to load me right.

I will still come on my planned trip in 3 weeks, and will be disappointed if I cannot ride MF and TTD, but I won't let it ruin my trip.

If they took off any bely lenght, I am hosed.

Joe E - I think you should apply for a PR job at CP. I'm guessing by the end of this season, they may have an opening or two. Very tactfully expressed, and you hit the nail right on the head. Bravo.

Joe's response is a nice one but I am not sure they can say, "we are working with the manufacturer to address the situation, so in the future we can safely accommodate you again."

Also, I don't think I have ever had success using the phrase, "I understand your experience and humiliation...." Inevitably when I slip and use that terminology I am immediately slapped with, "you have no idea how that made me feel. You couldn't have any idea."

I don't know that there will be any kind of fix that will allow these folks to get on in the future. And, as I stated earlier, any significant changes to the ride might prevent MORE people from not being able to ride. One example I heard:

Let's say they did decide to retrofit with OTSRs. Now extremely tall but not overweight people who rode with the T-bar would not be able to ride with the OTSR. An entire new set of problems.

Hey Chief, I thought you were color blind. LOL:)

What you said is so true, they might fix the ride for some people but in doing that they might make it so others can't ride it. What they need to do is just fix the trains back to the way the coaster ran perfectly fine for 4 years. If I remember correctly, SRoS at SFNE screwed up, not any body else, just them.

Twister II,

Ye gods, man! You could ride (but better not try) with someone on your lap! Go have fun!

MrScott

Looks like Willie got to meet Peggy on Saturday. She works for the park...not for Intamin.

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Chief Wahoo said:
Imagine what the operations folks are going through on a daily...or even hourly basis right now.

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Wait... you were at the forefront of the thread where we lectured an employee for saying that we should be sympathetic for people having to do their jobs. Which is it?

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And, when it comes down to it, I would rather read about people's bad experiences being banned from the ride than being thrown from the ride.

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I thought that you agreed that the idea that pulling the belt one inch shorter to make the ride safer was illogical?