What's been said is it, can't be...

IF its indeed a fake, it was definatly planned well in advance. A render that detailed (dont be fooled by the blur) takes weeks, sometimes months if your schedule prevents you from working day in and day out. Its not like you can whip up something like that on the spot.

Its possible, but I dont know what else you could do with the same exact foot alignment that would be as good.

The blur in the pic is a result of someone taking a pic of the real artwork with a digital camera. See the shadow off to the right? When CP releases the info themselves....the pic will be clear and the entire ride will be visible.

Old Coaster Guy said:
Big deal ... Do you think that FUN stock is going to go up or down based on this information ... etc ...

Don't mistake the spirited discussion for understanding the big picture. This story was not on CNN and Jay Leno did not mention it last night in his monologue. I certainly don't think about it after I walk away from PointBuzz. And, to be fair, this is a site that can discuss a construction update to death. :)

But in context, it is a big deal. Perhaps this particular case won't cause any lasting damage, but what about next time? You're kidding yourself if you don't think the park has serious concerns about this stuff. There are competition issues at play with big projects, just as there are marketing.

And it's certainly a problem to me. This site is part of the Internet enthusiast community. When another part of the community causes a problem, I'm going to be concerned about its effect on everyone else.

DJ (and Mortimer),

Please keep in mind the "timing" of this artwork. Once again, what real harm as been done? Were you expecting a 500 footer? This artwork seems to confirm what you and others have been seeing and saying for the past several weeks.

If Screamscape.com actually was privy to the ride plans, was told not to post anything specific until announcement day and did, then shame on screamscape.com. Further, Cedar Point will not invite them to participate in activities in the future (Media Days, etc.). That will end up being Screamscape.com's loss.

On the other hand, Cedar Fair/Cedar Point undoubtedly appreciates the service that pointbuzz.com provides. It truly is a two way street with pointbuzz.com. Walt/Jeff have always been great ambassadors for the Park. I refuse to believe that Walt/Jeff will not be provided with the same access because of actions taken by screamscape.com. Walt/Jeff have always taken the high road. They have proven that they are worthy of the park's trust.

I, like you, thoroughly enjoy the access that pointbuzz.com allows us during the offseason for construction of the many rides in the recent past.

I don't think that there is any reason to believe that Cedar Fair/Cedar Point will not share information with Walt/Jeff because of the screamscape.com artwork. That is, in my mind, one reason why Walt/Jeff have been so adamant about their stand on the artwork.

We will continue to get information and such via pointbuzz.com. This episode will not adversely affect that relationship, in fact, it may help in the long run.

If screamscape.com truly did a "dirty deed", shame on them. But for cripe sakes, this is only an amusement park ride we are talking about. Artwork that fairly closely matches the hundreds on pictures on pointbuzz.com. Information that is to be released within a week. Cedar Fair has NOT been hyping the announcement (other than Snoopy's "Banner").

While I think that there are many serious issues in the World today, I just don't think that this is one of them -- not even for us coaster fanatics.

Yea sunfire, I noticed that. I figured it had already been said and wasnt worth repeating...

But yea, someones in trouble, thats for sure. Im also sure it wouldnt be too hard to track them down either.

As Mortimer said, Screamscape has an obvious lack of integrity. Posting that picture was not the right thing to do, even if they had it in their possession.

That said, there is still so much of this ride that still needs to be revealed that Thursday's announcement will still be very exciting. All the details about the trains, theming, speeds, station, etc. will make the announcement very interesting.

Well, because this is a fairly focused group, I'd say this is relatively important. Not as important as topics on CNN right now, but there are other forums for those topics. (Not to mention that this is easily the most intelligent and interesting thread this P2007 forum has seen in weeks.)

Read Walt's post above, specifically referring to how this could play out in the future regarding the relationship between the community and the park. There's no evidence to say that it will, but its most definitely within reason that if this were to happen every year, the dynamics of the relationship would be changed, and we probably wouldn't like the results.

You're right - there hasn't been any significant harm done. Perhaps a few raised eyebrows at the park, but probably nothing more than concern at this point. But as I said above (and Walt further above), what about the future, if this were to become the norm?

And while I agree that PBuzz is a great ambassador for the park, I disagree that its a two way street. I'd find it hard to believe that the shareholders would be the least bit concerned if this niche community didn't exist. And I don't see how it could possibly "help in the long run". I'd like to hear your thoughts on how that scenario might play out.

To OCG, I humbly disagree that we're talking about an amusement park ride. We're talking about professional relationships, which take years to develop, and 2 minutes to destroy. I and many others love the coverage we get from the point, the updates, the behind the scenes tours, etc. But what if it all stops, what if this was the breaking point for park management, does it hurt the park? Not really. I'd be willing to wager that 90% of people looking for park information go to cedarpoint.com.

I can imagine that the same people who are all for screamscapes leak are the same people who see nothing wrong with posting a pic of said construction site having taken it from Mean Streak. Sure, viewing the pic is not breaking any law, but the taking of the pic was. Allowing the link is equal to endorsing the taking of pics that break park policy.

I have been watching this site for quite some time now and have my opinions concerning just about everything everyone posts on here. And by sitting back and watching the conversations go back and forth really gives me an insight into most of the personalities on this site. But I will always refrain from bashing others, even when some truly deserve it. I do want to say thanks to Walt, Jeff and the others who run the site and spend a considerable amount of time keeping it new and fresh and that takes a hugh amount of time. it. I just want to say that I don't understand why the security is not tighter on the plans and artwork layouts so that "leaks" can not occur. I know this is not Fort Knox but can't Cedar Point require confidentiality agreements from everyone involved with these new projects and put a price tag on the penalties if they are breached? These penalties would be similar to those by other corporations for corporate espionage, etc. And when information is leaked, I would say they start running everyone through lie detectors to see who did it. I know this sounds like a big, great national security leak but it is really important to the amusement industry to be able to control these corporate secrets until "they" are ready to present them to the general public and how else can you do this to ensure there are no leaks. Just my opinion for what it's worth. I have been around the world with the United States Air Force at other amusement parks and wanted to say that Cedar Point is the best by far, keep it up CP!!

So, what was the point of the first part of your statement?

Anyhow... I think you may be taking the security thing a bit too far. Nobody in their right mind is going to go as far as to administer lie detector tests just because a photo was leaked a week early. And while its probably very irritating to the powers that be, I can't imagine there's going to be any fallout from this within CP. Had it been something more sensitive, perhaps they would handle the situation in an appropriate way, which would most likely be the firing of whoever was responsible. But, no, this isn't the CIA - Dick isn't going to inject everyone with sodium pentathol just to find out whodunnit.

I don't think this was a leak by CP. I have a feeling it was someone who received a press packet legitimately and passed it on to the only site that would post it. I wouldn't be surprised if they had contacted this site to try and get Walt to post it.

That does seem like the most likely scenario.

I just looked on that other website that we're not supposed to mention. Is that really supposed to be Maverick??? Or is it a little hoax?

DJ,

I appreciate your views on this topic (and others, by the way). I will take a few moments to explain my thoughts on the very fair questions that you raise.

Clearly, Walt/Jeff could have said far more about the P2007 than they have. But, they didn't. They could have allowed the link to stay on poinbuzz.com, but did not. Walt very clearly distanced Pointbuzz.com from Screamscape.com. They always error on the cautious side when providing information to us on the Board.

This is where, in some way, it could actually help in the long run. Walt/Jeff have been given advanced information about rides for many years now. Yet, Pointbuzz.com has always, always, always taken the high road when divulging information.

As I understand it, there is a line of communication open between Cedar Point and Walt/Jeff. Walt alluded to that fact when discussing the posting of the aerial photographs.

Sometimes, when my brother did something wrong, I ended up benefitting from it even though I did nothing -- other than doing what was right. Perhaps, I got ice cream while my brother had to stay home. Maybe we weren't even going to get ice cream, but since my parents wanted to punish my brother, I got ice cream. Since Pointbuzz.com divulged nothing -- even after the artwork appeared and was discussed in detail -- perhaps Cedar Point will remember that and will provide Walt/Jeff with some "ice cream" for P2009.

That is my logic -- twisted as it may be.

On the topic of stockholders and their knowledge of Pointbuzz.com. You are right on one hand. They probably don't know it exists and would not care if it did not. On the other hand, I think that Cedar Point management is aware of Pointbuzz.com (in fact, I would like to see a link to Pointbuzz.com off of the Cedarpoint.com web site). In addition to CP Place (which I use to keep track of ride availability, "day trips" information, etc.), there are picture galleries, park information, etc. that all provide good information to Cedar Point. In fact, I always point friends and co-workers interested in going to Cedar Point to Pointbuzz.com. It has lots of information (hotel deals, etc.) and they can easily get to the CedarPoint.com website by clicking on the link from within Pointbuzz.com to get information on ticket prices, etc.

Old Coaster Guy, Good point.

Screamscape mentions this website all throughout theirs. Maybe they're envious of this website because Walt/ Jeff stick to the rules.

(Good story, bringing up the ice cream) :-)

I see your point about CP using brains when determining who will still be allowed access. Its well known that management monitors this site and I'm sure they realize that Walt/Jeff have done what they can to control the "damage". If this ends up being a one time thing, I don't think it will hurt.

But as DJ pointed out, if this begins happening each year, we may see a cut back as to who, outside traditional media, gets information. And that, obviously, is not a route that any of us wants to see this go.

I doubt that was a legitimate photo sent to anyone from the park. It looks like someone took a camera phone picture of a printout and then sent it to screamscape. Its too blurry and isn't framed well enough to be an "official" photo of the ride.

I agree with Walt though. This negatively impacts the entire web community when it comes to information. The park is going to be tighter with their information - as they should be. In my opinion, a website should have to "prove" itself to the park before they're trusted with any kind of information. The good ones will have the information when they should and the bad ones will have to wait to get their information until after the announcement.

But, like I said, I think this photo was taken by a person that has/had access to the plans. Screamscape just decided to post it when they knew they shouldn't have.

In theory, I can understand what you're saying regarding the punishment/reward concept. However, I think that in this case, there would be a possibility of punishment, but a very small likelihood of reward. Had this leak occurred earlier on - let's say May - then there probably would have been some concern, in my opinion.

Regarding the CP.com-PBuzz.com link. Yeah, on one hand it would be cool because of the recognition. On the other hand, being officially linked would probably carry a lot more trouble than its worth, in terms of regulation. It may even detract from the community in the type of members it would bring in.

My statement was more or less an idea of what they could do in the future "IF" they wanted to ensure security on a extreme level and lie detectors are extreme I read on here that roller coasters are planned years out in advance and it is obvious they do have good security in place now for those future projects not to be even mentioned in advance. I guess as the project gets closer to release, more people become aware of the plans and final layouts which increases the risks for leaks. Thanks to Pointbuzz for providing a responsible and reliable site of information for us amusement park fanatics.