What's been said is it, can't be...

For the record, what I saw in that 'art' wasn't a surprise at all, atleast the layout part wasn't...

Well put Jay...I think what he was "really" trying to say was that he wants to have ur babies Walt. lol

No but in all seriousness. I truly am proud to be a part of this community!!!

Just a few thoughts...

I still fail to see why posting this leaked info on Screamscape is being looked upon here as such a crime. The site's specialty is its rumors and news. If they didn't post it, it would compromise the niche they fill. Honestly, I doubt they had much of a relationship with the park to sour anyway, so why not post it?

Oh, and I like the obligatory brown nosing going on as well.

That is all.

I can not believe the direction of this thread. Isn't it distinctly possible that this "leak" was orchestrated by CP's marketing or PR department in an effort to generate more "buzz" around this Thursday's press conferance?

And, don't blame the messenger. Screamscape reports information, just like newspapers. Unless they solicited the informant, I believe all blames should fall on the source.

Well put CP
*** Edited 9/5/2006 3:01:47 AM UTC by Tom***

But fan sites aren't newspapers. The job of newspapers is to report to the people. The job of fan sites is to help in promoting the parks.

...And spread rampant rumors like crazy... ;)

Tom, you said it like a god. That is how it should be. If CP did not want it, out they should have gave them the info with a gag order not to speak until said announcment(sp?). If they gave them info about the ride and did not follow with any legal action, then do not shoot the messenger, blame the source.

I agree with you mikeybo. If they were going to take legal action they probably would've already done so by now.

Being a part of the film and journalism industry myself...

As a journalist, you do everything you can to find the facts to a story, and you construct a story based on what facts you have, (pointbuzz), then perhaps follow up later as info becomes available... or fabricate the facts and glorify yourself (screamscape)

(jeff or walt correct me if I am wrong)

But, on posting the ride layout...it was against park policy, and like it or not, Lance broke the trust. Breaking trust, no matter who its with, is, imo, the worst crime of all. I have many contacts and sources, and would never in my life think about putting those relationships at risk...thats poor journalism, and its bad enough that journalism is censored like it is..why make its image worse?

I know how Cedar Point works when it comes to breaking trust. Once you do it, don't even call for park hours. Plain and simple.

This is all a coverup so we don't know the truth about maverick until thursday.

On the next episode of 'Conspiracy?' on the History Channel...The truth behind Maverick, why was it sealed in mystery? We speak to the NSA to find the truth of why the public was deprived from the truth.

*EDIT* This ^^^ is sarcasm, I completely support keeping trust and not breaking it.
*** Edited 9/5/2006 5:03:01 AM UTC by maXaiRaptor***

Skyhawk Havok said:
I agree It's phsically impossible for that "concept art" to be legit.

Well, using NoLimits which is a fairly accurate simulator I was able to create a 107ft tall hill at 28 degrees (fairly common lift hill angle) cresting then hitting the magic number of 95 degrees with a 3 car train (what the "info" says) and I only hit -1.2 (good but not the highest ejector airtime in the world - El Toro probably has more and Superman : Ride of Steel at SFNE records more on a graph).

Its VERY doable. Especially since mine was done all by eye. And only in an hour. The pull out is pretty smooth and with more time I bet I could smooth it out even more to make the transition even more tolerable and probably even increase those back seat G's to nearer -1.5. Remember, you wont be held there long at all. Itll definatly be a very, very quick whip over the top. The transition out wont be bad.

Too many noobs and skeptics here...remember, we are talking about mechanical and civil engineers who all they is this kind of work. Not to mention Stengel whos done what...499 coasters in his day? Not bad. I dont put ANYTHING past that man.

Stengel can do whatever he wants with a coaster. He's the Chuck Norris of the amusement industry.

FACT: Nobody has ever gone upside down on a coaster. Stengel only twisted the earth around your heartline.

^Exactly my point. And great line...one I will save for a signature.

Tom said:
I can not believe the direction of this thread. Isn't it distinctly possible that this "leak" was orchestrated by CP's marketing or PR department in an effort to generate more "buzz" around this Thursday's press conferance?

I'm going to assume you forgot to put a smiley there, because that is obviously a joke, right?

...I believe all blames should fall on the source.

Mikeybo2004 said:
...they should have gave them the info with a gag order not to speak until said announcment(sp?).

See my response to Tom's joke above.

If they gave them info about the ride and did not follow with any legal action, then do not shoot the messenger, blame the source.

There are many other sources who all have the very same information, yet every other avenue of information has the integrity to respect CP's marketing plan. I'm not saying the source is without blame - after all, he entrusted a site that is obviously one of the most poorly run in the community. So, yes, a source that divulges information to someone that is obviously going to spill the beans deserves some blame. However, that doesn't remove the fault from the site itself - there's plenty of blame to go around.

I am kind of 50/50 about this. However, if someone did leak this information out and this is the real layout, we still have no explanation as to why construction began so early. Anyone have a reason that I do not see?

There's at least two reasons - theming & testing - that seem to be the most obvious.

Sorry to disapoint you DJ, but I was not joking, with my post above. Screamscape is a fan site reporting rumors that contacts supply them. That is what they do! The "source" had to be trusted by CP to aquire the picture, and the "source" knew exactly what would happen when provided to Screamscape.

This of course assumes Screamscape was NOT asked to keep the picture off the web.

Until I see or hear that Screamscape was specifically told NOT to distribute the picture and did it anyway (hard to believe), I think this was all planned by CP.

The timing of the "leak" is very suspect in my opinion. I find it very interesting that the picture in question has been around for months or years, and then one week before the "official" announcement it appears on the internet, creating more discussion and buzz about the ride, with no apparent down-side from this leak.

Call me crazy, I think this was all planned as part of the official announcement, and many on the board are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

First of all, I am not convinced that this artwork will be the "real McCoy." Secondly, it really does not matter.

If the artwork is the real McCoy, perhaps a couple thousand coaster enthusiast types (most half of my age) got to see what a coaster that is going to open in eight months will look like six days before the other 2+ billion people in the world. Big deal.

On the other hand, if the artwork is not the real McCoy (based on what Walt seems to know about things and his reaction, perhaps it is quite close to being real), another of the hundreds of possible layouts was viewed by those same couple thousand enthusiast types. Once again, big deal.

Do you think that FUN stock is going to go up or down based on this information? While the enthusiasts on this Board were anxiously looking forward to the announcement (and the vast majority still are), do you think many potential/current stockholders are changing their thinking based on this artwork? Do you think that any customers bought more/less cotton candy this weekend because of the artwork? Do you think that anyone decided not to make the trip this past weekend because of the artwork? I mean, everyone had a pretty good inkling that a coaster was being built, right? Other than the typically outlandish wishful thinking of some enthusiasts (remember MF island while TTD was being built?), the area for this ride has been known for several months. This Board allows "rumors" to proliferate about coasters all the time. Is it an Aquatrax? Will it be a 4D? Will it reach 500 feet? And on and on. That's what makes this Board enjoyable and interesting to read (that and the "bantering" between posters).

This artwork, whether real or not, will have no long term effect on Cedar Point. No fewer people will be on Pointbuzz on Thursday morning than would have been on otherwise. At the very least, everyone will want to check out the announcement vs. the artwork.

Had this "artwork" appeared before the footers went in, had this "artwork" illustrated a dramatically unique record-breaking ride -- and it was accurate, and, therefore, stolen somehow from Cedar Point/Intamin/the construction company -- I could see how Cedar Point/Cedar Fair would be quite upset and considering legal action.

As it is, the artwork has just fueled the rumor fire even more.

At the same time, I respect Walt's/Jeff's decision to avoid any connection with the artwork. Pointbuzz.com is really an extension to cedarpoint.com. While CP Place does allow for much discussion. The rest of the site is a good augmentation to cedarpoint.com. Pointbuzz.com does not exist purely as a "news and rumor" site. Information on ride status, park hours, etc. provide a real service to those of us with season passes living two plus hours away.

I will be up bright and early on Thursday like most of you. I look forward to an early May 2007 trip to ride Maverick just like most of you.

Blowing up airplanes is pretty serious stuff. Posting some artwork 140 hours before the announcement of a largely-completed amusement park ride is not.

Sorry about the lengthy post. Your mind tends to wander when you get old.

Alright Tom, put in your mouth guard, strap on your helmet and tighten that 5-point harness, because this is gonna be rough...

In response to this being CP's secret plan:
Not a chance in hell. How many people do you think have seen the picture? A few hundred? Maybe a couple thousand? That is not even a minuscule blip on CP's marketing radar screen, and the results of such a campaign wouldn't warrant the almost nonexistent energy required to implement it. CP has a plan, has spent money on that plan, and isn't going to deviate from that plan just to create a almost unnoticeable stir in a very limited group of people. Its just not worth it, and if you really believe that CP planned this, I'd suggest you give some valid reasoning to back that assertion.

In response to the blame game:
Do you want to know a cute fact? Cedar Point did, in fact, tell the site in question NOT to distribute the information. I mean, if you don't realize that, then you haven't been paying much attention. CP has a marketing plan for a reason, and to ignore that is plain idiotic. The site has no regard for the time and money that CP has spent on this plan, and performed a disservice to the enthusiast community by posting the information. You may be asking yourself: "A disservice? By golly, what do you mean?" Allow me to elaborate...

Cedar Point no doubt understands that with any project, there will be people that will be privy to information that they really shouldn't have any knowledge of. They also are fairly candid with the enthusiast community regarding most things, and I would really hate to see that relationship deteriorate in any way, shape or form. We're a lucky bunch of nerds, because the park appreciates our support and does their best to reciprocate that to us in any way they can. The site that disclosed this information was just like a few other coaster enthusiast sites until Friday afternoon - all had knowledge of the ride, and all were keeping quiet, because they have professional courtesy. But, that site wanted to get some hits (because they have trouble obtaining hits through more reasonable means, such as quality) and decided to post information that they had no business divulging. Now, imagine for a second that this leaves a bad taste in CP's mouth. Now imagine this happens every time a major new attraction is put in. How do you think that will affect the relationship between the enthusiast community and the park? I can't say that it would hurt it, but I think its a safe assumption that its not going to improve it.

What if CP decided that they weren't going to allow any photographs to be taken during the off season? What if they decided they were no longer going to do interviews with our community's journalists? Yeah, I realize these are far-fetched consequences, but neither are out of the realm of possibility, especially if problems like the one on Friday became the norm.

I, for one, would much rather be able to hear interesting interviews with people like Dick Kinzel than get information a mere 6 days early. I'd rather get to look at some pretty inspiring pictures of CP's midway covered in snow than look at a blurry, incomplete overview of a ride that we'd have known ALL about in less than a week anyway.

So, yeah, maybe the site didn't commit a horrendous crime by posting that info, but they certainly performed a disservice to our community. And if you can't see that, then your presence is a disservice to the community.

EDITED to show that this is a response to Tom.
*** Edited 9/5/2006 12:48:56 PM UTC by djDaemon***

I am quite shocked by many people on this site that don't have a problem with screamscape showing the picture. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. If screamscape was given the picture by someone else, then no, technically they are not breaking any rules. However, if someone had given me that picture last week, do you think I would post it on the internet? Heck no, I've got much more respect for the park and the management to do that.

I am glad Walt and Jeff have built the relationship with the park, as it provides us with insight that no other site has. Walt, I hope I'll see you next opening day for the charity rides, I'm sure I'll be bidding again. *** Edited 9/5/2006 12:51:48 PM UTC by Mortimer***