Virus Impact on CP

What miserable low life’s they must be. Losers who accomplished nothing in life and have to resort to trolling discussion forums to justify their existence.

Harsh, but my opinion stands on individuals like that. Opinions are one thing, intentionally salting wounds is another.

Embarrassing

It's almost like site owners and moderators have no ability to see who creates accounts, or mulitple accounts.. Yet they keep lying and lying instead of just saying "yep, i was caught"

They do in most cases, but the mods here have a full time life outside of this website and thus can’t babysit the forums every single second. I’d say they’ve done a great job of filtering out the rogue accounts and keeping the discussions fairly tempered while still allowing for a variety of opinions.

I also discovered about 20k Russian accounts created here and on CoasterBuzz from the last year or two. But tell me again how there's no Russian campaign to mess with American culture and politics.

Sort of like there probably isn't an American campaign to mess with Russian culture and politics?

It's a fun moral dilemma, right? If one nation tries to get an autocratic fascist elected, and the other tries to remove one, who is right?

That made me chuckle because it is so true.

You can’t convince me that the tech companies that are at the forefront of data analytics don’t know exactly what is going on and deliberately turning a blind eye because it is profitable.

https://reason.com/2020/06/02/virus-transmission-estimates-provide-...overrated/

"the epidemic's growth can be controlled with tactics far less disruptive, socially and economically, than the extended lockdowns or other extreme forms of social distancing that much of the world has experienced over the past few months."

Interesting, scientific article basically stating targeted, smart lockdowns to be the better approach than what we did. No this is not the be-all, end-all on the topic but I think this is just another reminder to all of us on both sides of the argument (aisle?) that we should try to be more in the middle and not so sure of our viewpoint (smugly discarding other viewpoints) until we learn the whole, real truth about a topic. We won’t know what we need to know about this virus for another full year or longer.

Master D said:

Interesting, scientific article...

Let me stop you right there. That is not a "scientific" article, and it pains me that anyone would think it's a "scientific" article. The author is nothing more than a columnist with an apparent agenda, based on the numerous other we're overreacting to this thing-type pieces.

Regarding the linked piece, why did he leave out Wisconsin? Probably because the numbers there don't fit his we're overreacting to this thing narrative.

Yeah, funny how he neglected to mention Wisconsin's 7-day average of daily deaths, which may or may not be linked to the state reopening. But that he left out a data point such as this taints his entire argument.

basically stating targeted, smart lockdowns to be the better approach than what we did.

This requires widespread testing and tracing capability, which we don't have now, and had even less of a couple months ago.

...we should try to be more in the middle and not so sure of our viewpoint (smugly discarding other viewpoints)

We should absolutely discard the opinion of someone who is not a subject matter expert, especially when that person has an apparent agenda, and certainly when that non-expert opinion disagrees with the consensus opinion of subject matter experts.

We won’t know what we need to know about this virus for another full year or longer.

This sort of torpedoes the entire "we overreacted" argument, no?

I will have to disagree with you on the “scientific” question. He used real data, University models and a Hong Kong study, all linked to the source. Not sure why you say that is not scientific. Are you expecting him to run his own, double-blind, randomized, controlled experiment?

You also made a pretty quick assumption that the author is biased and has an agenda. I don’t know, maybe you are right, I don’t know anything about him or the website reason.com, but you came to that conclusion very quickly I see.

Not sure why he left out Wisconsin, but that data point does not nullify what we are seeing with the data points in the article. That argument works both ways.

Finally, the subject matter experts have been learning daily too, may of these experts have changed points of view as the data rolls in. That is my point, keeping an open mind until we really know, which we don’t and I’m not claiming a shutdown was wrong just food for thought.

Master D said:

He used real data...

He used data selectively, choosing to show only data that supported his argument, while leaving out data that contradicts it. Not only does that take all the "science" out of his argument, it is an enormous red flag that someone has an agenda.

I don’t know anything about him or the website reason.com, but you came to that conclusion very quickly I see.

Because I took 90 seconds to see what else he's written. Here's a taste:

Virus Transmission Estimates Provide More Evidence That COVID-19 Lockdowns Are Overrated

How Much Credit Should Lockdowns Get for Reducing COVID-19 Transmission?

Andrew Cuomo's Morally Grotesque Rationale for Maintaining COVID-19 Lockdowns

Shouldn't COVID-19's Lethality Inform the Response to It? (where he argues, you guessed it, that the fatality rate is much lower (once again using cherry picked data), so we're all overreacting)

See a pattern? Sullum repeatedly argues against the lockdowns, which in and of itself is fine. But he consistently cherry picks data points that support this point of view, while ignoring data points that contradict it. He's being dishonest, quite frankly.

Not sure why he left out Wisconsin

Because that data contradicts his argument.

I am certainly in favor of keeping an open mind, and there are legitimate, nuanced arguments to be had in this area. But in doing so critical thinking should guide us, not ideological points of view.

**UPDATE** Hotel Breakers will be opening this month without Cedar Point or the Waterpark. I had a reservation for the last week of June and received an email today saying that the hotel will be open with beach and pools, but the parks would be closed- no date was given for the parks and the email stated there was no date at this time.

I have the option of taking the reservation with a reduced rate, postponing, or canceling.

We are doing just fine here in Wisconsin, thanks for your concern. It’s been three weeks without any restrictions at all, and the world has not imploded the numbers are looking great.

Dude, your 7-day average daily deaths is roughly 50% higher than it was when you guys reopened. It's also on the rise, instead of trending down as it was.

Is that a result of reopening, or other factors? Who knows, but the numbers are not exactly "looking great" in that regard.

I didn't check the rates beforehand. But my wallet didn't run away when I looked right this minute!

Looks like there is a Sun & Fun package that comes with it. Different meals everyday. My Lakeview room is going for 204.00 June-24th-25th if I booked now.

I can see this being a great opportunity for a "Soft" opening for the hotel. As someone that doesn't have a family I don't know if this is a good value or not. Either way a neat idea!

Wisconsin is definitely not "fine," as the infection rate is still increasing at 1.10, and ICU bed use is still increasing.

Reason is a libertarian opinion site, and as Brandon pointed out, it's cherry picking data to fit a convenient narrative.

Master D said:
Finally, the subject matter experts have been learning daily too, may of these experts have changed points of view as the data rolls in. That is my point, keeping an open mind until we really know, which we don’t and I’m not claiming a shutdown was wrong just food for thought.

This doesn't mean that they have no idea what's going on. I see this as an argument all of the time. Apparently a lot of people started with an open mind. We started down this road with insistence that it wasn't a problem, that it would just disappear, and here we are, 106,000 dead people later, and infection rates are locally starting to pivot higher. Those differences are definitely interesting to consider, because maybe it can validate what's working and what's not.

He probably means Wisconsin is fine because he personally isn't affected by the virus. After all, he's agreed with a lot of people who have downplayed the virus' impact, as well as kjettski's 'money > people, diversity is bad, the best way to deal with thugs is killing them but putting thugs in body bags looks bad politically' post.

If you upvoted those things in error, man, I apologize in advance, but going by the tack of your posts in the past I don't think you did.

Jeff - I noticed that Orange county's infection rate is at 1.10 today. Wasn't it at 1.02 earlier this week? According to the graph it has not been that low in quite some time. Did something weird happen this week to really change the data?