Top Thrill Dragster 2022 Status

The train didn't come off the track, a metal plate made to trip sensors came off. That's a pretty simple problem to solve: Don't use that plate to trip proximity switches.

What’s the concern? if the part that failed is removed from the design entirely? Just like new.

The trains are 20 years old and have spent their life going 120mph up 420ft. I’m an enthusiast and know the PR nightmare that is. The GP knows something flew off the train, they didn’t read the 500 pg report like you all did!

Keeping the same trains doesn’t even remotely sound feasible (or PR friendly) on a ride they are innovating/creating/reimagining (those are park words- not mine 😉)

Intamin’s new trains with lighting and music. Unbelievable and worth every penny they’d pay.

The trains are gone.

I'm thinking if this is indeed an LSM conversion happening here, it would probably need lighter trains to make it over the top hat. In that video posted in here a while back, the example it went off of was a coaster that had fewer cars per train and it didn't have to go as high. It had some good points. But I supposed they could modify and retrofit the existing trains to make them lighter. Possibly even take off a car and put new bodies on them. But nobody here knows exactly what the plan is. Only the black shirt higher-ups and any engineers working on this know what's happening.

someone beat me to my imagination and uploaded what I feel is a plausible refurbishment, if not rough idea.
Should Intamin be involved, of course. (The stators on the twist is a bit of a stretch though?)

https://youtu.be/qb1SaUUeLIc

They could use the signs they used in 2017, Top Thrill Cubster.

I agree whole heartedly.

I also dont know why everyone is so wrapped up in the cost discussion.

Cedar Point is used to making industry leading investments in rollercoasters every few years.

Cedar Point isnt a local theme park competitor.

It is a world renowned thrill park destination.

They're hallmark is gaving the biggest, fastest, longest, and most exoansive rollercoaster collection in the world.

If anything, they have a massive cost savings.

Example:

Say they want to make a monumental millenium force esque investment in the park.

Well... They already have the most expensive part of a massive new coaster experience paid for in a 420ft tower and track. They can keep it and slap a 35-40 million dollar expansion on to the ride after the first drop and have a record breaking world renowned experience.

-Millenium Force cost 45 million in todays dollar's

-Valravn was 25 Million Dollars

-Maverick was 30 Million in todays dollars

I dont think its a stretch at all for a park thats the rollercoaster capital of the world.

NextGen89:

Cedar Point is used to making industry leading investments in rollercoasters every few years.

What does this mean? They spend money more than others? The park makes decisions based on the marketability of attractions, and now, more than ever, cost of operation.

Cedar Point isnt a local theme park competitor.

It is a world renowned thrill park destination.

No, it's a regional player. It has been well established that the bulk of their traffic is from Northern Ohio and Southern Michigan. It doesn't matter what parks in California or New Jersey are doing.

It absolutely matters what other parks are doing.

^ it mattered in 1989 with Magnum (there’s a YouTube video of the European Coaster Club came to ride)

^ it mattered in 1994 when the park saw the hit that Batman: The Ride was at Six Flags Great America and introduced the best version of the Inverted coaster.

^ 1996 Mantis

^ 1998 Power Tower

^ 2000 Millennium Force

^ 2002 Wicked Twister

^ 2003 Dragster

^ 2007 Maverick

^ 2013 Gatekeeper

^ 2015 Rougarou

^ 2016 Valravn

^ 2018 Steel Vengeance

The park has always looked at ROI with their capital dollars and it’s effect on attendance (read John H’s book) 20 years from now attractions like Forbidden Frontier will be remembered like we see Jungle Larry or Oceana from today’s vantage point. When I was there over the summer all I saw was actors who barely had foot traffic, and a restaurant (Provisions) that looked like it hadn’t opened all season. The real winner was the playground- and this is hard for me to admit bc I like the concept and spent 8 years as a theatre teacher- but I don’t see it lasting much longer or think we will continue to see the concept scaled back (it has to be very expensive to pay those actors to just sit around).

My point is that the park has actually invested heavily in family friendly attractions the last few years- and will continue to invest in families next season.

But as an investor, I do think Cedar Point needs to go back to basics- they have always taken the hot coaster on the market and perfected it.

That hot coaster is Velocicoaster. I can promise you that any conversation regarding what to do with Top Thrill Dragster amongst the big decision makers had to consider a variety of options (I guarantee you tearing the thing down was probably considered and the cost was probably astronomical).

Intamin is the manufacturer. Do they want to work with them? They’re probably not their first choice, but sometimes we switch from the Hyundai to the Honda and vice versa. This is business- and Intamin is still a major player. It’s been 12 years since Intamin has worked with Cedar Fair, and 2 CEOs ago.

If you think Cedar Fair won’t talk to Intamin- you don’t understand the basics of business.

Zimmerman: “What’s the hottest thing on the market ?”

Market Intel (probably Tony 😜): ”Velocicoaster. Islands of Adventure.”

Zimmerman: ”Dammit! Call Intamin- let’s see what they come up with.”

But as an investor? Are you going to whip out your ACE card next and show us that you really mean business?

Jeff:

Cedar Point isnt a local theme park competitor.

It is a world renowned thrill park destination.

No, it's a regional player. It has been well established that the bulk of their traffic is from Northern Ohio and Southern Michigan. It doesn't matter what parks in California or New Jersey are doing.

I have met people that know of Cedar Point as the best place to ride roller coasters in the world. Does the bulk of CP's audience pull from the local area? Yes. Is it a "World Renowned" park? 100 percent yes.

Tilt-a-Whirl:

if we don’t get a new layout following the tower, you really can’t justify the investment.

So, in your RCT fever dream they install thousands of feet of very expensive steel track, which would necessarily be fitted with so, so many brake fins needed to bleed off ~60+MPH in order to safely navigate the course (remember, VC has brake fins downtrack of the tophat after the 70MPH launch), and you think this is the only way any investment can be justified?!?

Citation needed.

Tilt-a-Whirl:

The GP knows something flew off the train

No, "the GP" knows a piece flew off the ride and nearly killed a guest. I would be surprised if a nontrivial number of "the GP" knows anything more than that.

Tilt-a-Whirl:

The park has always looked at ROI with their capital dollars and it’s effect on attendance (read John H’s book)

John started working there in the 70's and, according to the book, was basically mentored that the only metric that mattered was attendance. So it's not a surprise that he, Kinzel, and the others who also followed that mantra only had one move - build new rolley coaster and hope attendance goes up. But that move stopped working eventually, or at least had diminishing returns.

If they spend the many, many millions of dollars to bring your RCT fantasy to life, then management has truly lost their damned minds, because that's money that could better be spent elsewhere.

DJ- every move the park had made so far supports my RCT theory. What do you think they’re doing, Mr. Rougarou?

The only "moves" the park has made is having the TTD site marked for utilities, some shrubs trimmed, and remove the launch cable, so I'm not sure how that in any way supports them doing anything remotely close to what you're speculating.

The park said TTD “as you know it” is gone. Clearly something significant is changing.

The park used words like “reimagined”, “innovation”, and “creating a new ride experience”.

And you think the ride is staying exactly like it is now? I don’t see how it could be any more clear.

No, I don't think the ride is "staying exactly like it is now" so get that strawman out of here. They are obviously altering the ride in some way, I just don't see how any of their marketing words/phrases can be extrapolated out to them spending tens of millions of dollars to do what you're fantasizing about. Their statement could just as easily - and more realistically - describe the hydraulic launch being replaced with LSM. It would be "innovative" since it would be the tallest LSM launch coaster on the planet, and would also be "a new and reimagined ride experience."

I can certainly understand that someone who wants those crazy things to happen would interpret their marketing speak to mean that, but that to me represents an inability to be objective and realistic.

Objective and realistic.

How is it not realistic for the park who is known worldwide to build the tallest, fastest, groundbreaking roller coasters to remove everything but the 420’ tower and spend $40 million on an “innovative, reimagined, new ride experience” for 2024?

Now- will we get 4,000 feet of track following the top hat? That’s probably me dreaming a little- but this discussion should absolutely turn to what this “innovation” is rather than trying to argue that a $40 million refurb of the 2nd tallest roller coaster in the world is not a wise way for the roller coaster capital of the world to invest capital.

At this point, anything goes as far as it being "reimagined". They could remove the ride entirely and fill the station with VR drag racing simulators, or use the tower as a support for a Gemini Midway Sky Ride, and it would all be under "retired as you know it"

Tilt-a-Whirl:

How is it not realistic for the park who is known worldwide to build the tallest, fastest, groundbreaking roller coasters to remove everything but the 420’ tower and spend $40 million on an “innovative, reimagined, new ride experience” for 2024?

Because that does not remotely resemble their cap ex strategy over the last ~10 years, and instead looks like their cap ex strategy during the 90's/00's when they company was run by an entirely different group of people who only knew how to build roller coasters and serve crappy, overpriced food.

Could they do what you're proposing? Sure, anything is possible, I suppose. But the certainty under which you are operating is totally untethered to reality.

I think we either get a "simple" conversion of TTD to a LSM launch system with a re-theming or it's going to be something radically different likely in the form of an all or mostly new ride.

The ride is almost 20 years old, the track isn't smooth as it used to be, things are wearing and tearing, etc. It just doesn't make sense to me that they would do something in the middle of those two options.

For the sake of my comment we'll say an LSM conversion runs $5M and something radically different that's all new runs $40M. I just don't see a place for a $15M-$20M update that utilizes the majority of the existing track, has some modifications to the existing layout, and converts the ride to LSM. In my eyes, either you bandage it up for $5M or go all the way for $40M and also rework the midway around the new ride.

Maybe I'm way off the mark, but time will tell.