Top Thrill Dragster 2022 Status

Wait. But you said bolts dont loosen up...do they or dont they?

The loading stress on the bolt that stayed in place was increased beyond its capacity when the first bolt loosened and came off. Causing the second bolt to shear causing the flag plate to come off.

Now. There is also a potentially 19 or so year old bolt that has been subjected to thousands of cycles. I dont know what the hardware replacement schedule is for that specific hardware.


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08- Arcade Mechanic

JoshBrown:

Wait. But you said bolts dont loosen up...do they or dont they?

The loading stress on the bolt that stayed in place was increased beyond its capacity when the first bolt loosened and came off. Causing the second bolt to shear causing the flag plate to come off.

Now. There is also a potentially 19 or so year old bolt that has been subjected to thousands of cycles. I dont know what the hardware replacement schedule is for that specific hardware.

I didn't say anything about bolts dont loosening up or shearing (because they do) (I was quoting someone else).

I'm just trying to understand why this particular accident unambiguously lands on Intamin's doorstep.

e x i t english's avatar

You even said, yourself, that Cedar Point “worked with Intamin to do truncated off-season maintenance due to fewer cycles in 2020”

So, does Intamin have a hand in this or not? You can’t absolve them of responsibility and then claim they were involved in the very same, limited off-season maintenance that you claim caused the issue.

Sorry veritas55 my reply was directed at Browntggrr. Not your post. Sorry for the confusion


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08- Arcade Mechanic

Jeff's avatar

Since everyone wants to be so literal, it was at best 18 seasons. With down time, the pandemic, and the four-ish months or year of operating days, I doubt Dragster ran six years.


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Plague on Wheels's avatar

I think the park carries most of the blame here for that poor woman's brain injury. Otherwise, why would they refuse to abide by the state of Ohio's public records act, causing the Sandusky Register to file a lawsuit against the park. Instead of providing the public records to the Sandusky Register, required per Ohio Public Records Act (ORC 149.43), Tony Clark and Cedar Point lawyered up instead..

Simply put, the easiest way for CP to make this go away in the mind of the public is to decline to provide key information about the accident, turn down interview requests and not produce records of the incident (breaking Ohio public records law).

Basically, following the horrific accident, members of the media turned to the amusement park and its police department for answers. They didn’t get many. They instead got asked to go get a lawyer if you want them to talk about it.


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e x i t english:

You even said, yourself, that Cedar Point “worked with Intamin to do truncated off-season maintenance due to fewer cycles in 2020”

So, does Intamin have a hand in this or not? You can’t absolve them of responsibility and then claim they were involved in the very same, limited off-season maintenance that you claim caused the issue.

I didn't "claim" the limited off-season maintenance "caused the issue." I haven't claimed anyone is "responsible" for it (because sometimes genuine accidents happen that are not the result of anyone's negligence, or it's unknown). I know that may seem inconceivable in our litigious society....).

My comments are directed at the comments above the flag plate accident was yet another example of Intamin's negligent designs causing injury. I think that's a pretty big stretch, based on what we know: a bolt backed out of the bogie and then failed, causing the second bolt to fail. The most likely explanation is the bolt had loosened over time and was not properly re-torqued (the Ohio regulatory inspection found another loose flag plate on the purple train). It seems unlikely that a design flaw shows up 20 years later, or whatever. But I dunno....

Intamin is a garbage company that produces death traps and metallic trash heaps.

Discuss.

JoshBrown:

Wait. But you said bolts dont loosen up...do they or dont they?

Knowing you are able to use "loading stress" I unfortunately assumed you would understand vibration.

Something along the lines of: I can't understand your response because dont is not a word.

veritas55:
But is the most likely explanation an Intamin design flaw, and not either a maintenance issue, a metallurgical flaw (that showed up 20 years later), or just some other factor? I don't think it's fair to say that is the most likely reason.

Correct. Variations of flag plates have been used for decades among numerous rides over numerous parks. Ever hear of another ride losing one?


Beer and golf Thursday thru Monday, Cedar Point & beer, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Can you see One-Eyed-Willie from the top of Magnum?

A few observations…
1) How many hyper coasters did Morgan build before building Wild Thing? Uryy, how many steel coasters did Morgan build before building Wild Thing?

2) Dragster’s flag plate places its mounting hardware under minimal stress, as that plate is not intended to come into contact with anything. Evidence presented in the report indicates that all of the flag plates on all the trains that operated that day. That suggests something on the track broke, and then damaged the flags, finally breaking one of them. It wasn’t a loading issue, it was a collision of parts that were not supposed to touch each other.

—Dave Althoff, Jr.



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Kevinj's avatar

And to add to Dave's comment;

3) There had been reports of (louder than normal) vibration noises coming from that part of the ride, and they couldn't figure out what it was. They didn't just throw their hands up in the air, though, they documented it all. In fact, reading the report really opened my eyes to all the nitty-gritty details the workers actually go through on a night by night basis; not to mention how much of a pain in the ass TTD had to be.

I'm not sure what more info anyone could possibly want beyond the hundreds of pages that were eventually released. I read some details I would rather not have read which, as someone who kinda-sorta understands brain trauma/anatomy, leads me to a good guess of what she is facing for the rest of her life.


Promoter of fog.

Browntggrr:

Knowing you are able to use "loading stress" I unfortunately assumed you would understand vibration.

Something along the lines of: I can't understand your response because dont is not a word.

Ahhh yes...wasn't their a saying about winning an argument on the internet and the special olympics or something?

Heres how I see it. You made a bull**** poorly worded statement and then insulted my intelligence when i told you how ridiculous it sounded. Congrats. You win the internet and ttd is definitely a death trap.

I feel like veritas55 and Dave Althoff and Kevin J look at it logically. And well...you on the other hand....well...i hope you wont be in line for the reimaged inta/erla deathtrap (your inferrence, not mine)

Last edited by JoshBrown,

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08- Arcade Mechanic

^ It's a forum discussion. Not sure why you allude to an argument but what is there to win?

Death trap? Never said it.


Beer and golf Thursday thru Monday, Cedar Point & beer, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Can you see One-Eyed-Willie from the top of Magnum?

MichaelB's avatar

djDaemon:

Footer design isn't some arbitrary, artistic process. It's driven largely by loading scenario, not necessarily by who is designing it.

Soil parameters are just as important, if not more important, when it comes to footer design. For instance, the soil near the lagoon dictated the need for a raft - not the loading.

Designing for loads is more or less plug and chug. You look at the loads the foundation will see then you use tables to determine rebar sizing, rebar spacing, concrete psi, cross sectional area, etc.

High Flyer:

Intamin is a garbage company that produces death traps and metallic trash heaps.

Discuss.

Lol.

Since Intamin and Zamperla doing the project are still technically complete rumors or speculation. I do want to bring up an old rumor that got some traction on Reddit in August.. before Zamperla released their new train designs...

There was a guy who swore Mack was doing the project.

Which makes a ton of sense.

Might explain why they took Mac Shack down, to focus completely on the new ride..

djDaemon's avatar

Plague on Wheels:

They instead got asked to go get a lawyer if you want them to talk about it.

Which is exactly the right response from the park. As mentioned, the publicly-available report contains way, way more information than anyone other than the family of that woman needs to know. Suggesting that guilt is indicated by the park withholding additional details is nonsensical. And, to put it bluntly, that argument seems like unconvincing cover for someone who wants additional gruesome details and is upset they're not getting them, which is... not a great look.


Brandon

Exactly, Brandon

Some people seem to overlook the fact what the register was doing was sensationalizing the incident to sell articles. The parks "lawyers need to talk to our lawyers" response is standard proceedure...but the media is all like.."see they must be hiding something because they wont openly talk about it"

Last edited by JoshBrown,

Ride On!

08- Arcade Mechanic

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