Top Thrill Dragster 2022 Status

Is everyone forgetting that at the end of the day the driving factor to why people come to the park is the marquee attractions? Do you ever see an arcade or bathroom or kids area or restaurant on the front of the brochures? No, you see one of the top 4-5 coasters at the park. Cedar Point knows this and for that reason every 3-4 years they’ll invest heavily in a new marquee attraction to replace aging ones. That will always be the case. It will never change with the exception of a weak economy.

For those whom still think this is some kind of lagoon maintenance or extension of the launch, or moving of the station, or a queue. Wake up and smell the pattern. It is a large triangular shaped footer that is designed much like pantheon’s, yet on steroids, and lines up perfectly with the launch track, yet the station structure remains there. This is clearly a tower or spike of some sort. The height, we don’t know yet.

Jeff, you did not respond AT ALL to what I asked. Instead, you argued against claims I never made. I don't understand why you can't answer a simple question. Based on the current evidence, what is this new construction for? It seems completely reasonable that this is for a spike (NOT a 500' spike. a spike to add to the experience of the ride.) I am not being motivated by marketing or park ego, I'm looking at this construction footage and assuming it's for a spike. Why are you so hesitant to believe that? (Remember, I was team "just LSM conversion" for a LONG time, now I have changed my opinion based on the current evidence.)

Unless you can provide a better argument on what this is all for, you just look silly.

mgou58:

Honestly it could very well be just an extension of the launch or relocation of the queue itself which, based on logic and common sense also happens to make the most sense.

You see, based on the current evidence, these two ideas make NO sense. Why would the launch go all the way back into ID footprint. That doesn't make sense.
All this work to create a line for the new attraction. That doesn't make sense. Why would they do all of this work for a concrete pad for a line?

some fellas need to sit tight ;) Spread the love, not the hate. Tucker's gone, let's turn a new page here.

Guys with all due respect they didn't drill three large diameter deep caissons for an extension of the queue

Cedar Pointer:

If its the ladder then I agree with you. I don't see much use of a spike taller then 350

If it's the step stool, however... That thing can go to hell.

mgou58:

The general public will still visit no matter what.

Then what was the park’s motivation for building the tallest/fastest/longest/most inversions on a wing, dive and hybrid coaster? They could have just plopped down a mid-sized versions of all those. Instead we got Gatekeeper, Valravn and Steel Vengence, all of these being built after they supposedly stopped caring about building record breaking rides “because they’ll visit anyway”…

Does the park care about increasing per cap spending? Yeah. Do they care about adding family oriented attractions? Expanded dining? Resort activities and amenities? Yeah. But they still clearly care about record breaking rides and to deny that is just plain incorrect. It’s not all just one or the other.

Will there be a 500-ft spike? Probably not, but it doesn’t need to be 500-ft to claim a record.

If someone asks what levers the park has pulled lately, then rides, food, FastLane, and merchandise do not come to my mind. It’s the resorts. Nice places to stay, and the push toward multi-day visits is what accounts for an actual, lasting increase in attendance. Cedar Point is most unique across the chain for that, but several parks have added the deluxe campground concepts lately. And once again in an effort to keep guests close by and re-entering.
As for publicity shots, I can think of years when Breakers and the new waterpark were featured prominently. Once again, it’s always added value as a driver, and not always new rides.

Gonna take a long break from here as it’s exhausting conversing with some of you who just refuse to use logic and common sense. We will all find out together soon enough what’s going to happen with Dragster. Enjoy the season folks.

Lol ok. You're the one that thinks all of this construction is for (checks notes) a queue. Ya, really logical and reasonable.

Bye.

What's exhausting is the people pushing back on posts that don't even exist. Nobody here is saying a theoretical spike is going to be 500ft tall, and if they are, it's clearly tongue in cheek.

Cedar Pointer:

It still sounds like you are pushing back on the spike and im not sure I understand why?

I'm not pushing back on anything other than confidence.

Cedar Pointer:
If what you are saying is true, how come they kept pushing the envelope past 1994?

Because Dick Kinzel had a Napoleon complex.

Frog Hopper King:
Jeff, you did not respond AT ALL to what I asked. Instead, you argued against claims I never made.

Everything isn't about you, you know.

I could actually know exactly what's going on to the letter, and just be ****ing with everyone for clicks. That's some Occam's Razor for you.

If there's one thing I've gathered from this debate, it's that you all like to ::check notes::.......take notes.

Jeff:

Everything isn't about you, you know.

I could actually know exactly what's going on to the letter, and just be ****ing with everyone for clicks. That's some Occam's Razor for you

Oh ok. Cool. Sounds like cope to me. Some of us, I guess, are trying to have a discussion on what is going on with Dragster.

It's pretty frustrating that you seemed to be trying to make an argument and now you are saying that you are just ****ing with people.

Going forward we will know that your trolling. Thanks for letting us know.

Cedar Pointer:

Do you get some royalties when you mention Johns book?

I obviously can't speak for Jeff, but whenever I've recommended John's book, it's to enlighten folks on the business side of things from the perspective a person who worked at the park for 40 years, and ran it (along with Dorney) for a decade. There is a wealth of knowledge and perspective in there for anyone interested in the how and why of the decisions made by management.

If what you are saying is true, how come they kept pushing the envelope past 1994?

The short answer is that it took time to realize the "build a big rolly coaster = profit" lever wasn't reliable.

The long answer is in the book, but the summary is that there are a lot of inputs (new attractions, weather, economy, etc.), and basically one output - annual attendance. And annual attendance only comes once a year, so it's a very limited data set.

They build Raptor for '94, see a huge attendance surge, and logically think "well hell, let's run that winning play again", so they build Bansh-, er, Mantis for '96. But that doesn't result in the same attendance boost, but again, there are many other factors that affect attendance, so it's not yet clear that the "build a big rolly coaster = profit" strategy wasn't holding up. So they build MF, and while they see some attendance gains, it's not the same as what they saw in '94, but they press on.

And at this point, the "Coaster Wars" are in full swing, and Kinzel being Kinzel, they build WT in 2002 and TTD in 2003, never seeing any significant attendance boost as a result, despite burning well over $100 million in 2023 dollars between MF, WT, and TTD, the latter of which was a complete debacle. At this point even Kinzel can see the writing on the wall that the "build a big rolly coaster = profit" strategy is totally bunk. Four years later they build the relatively modest Maverick, a coaster that barely crests a hundred feet. And it would be another six years before GK debuted.

Now, none of this is to say that they don't see value in "marquee attractions," because it's quite evident that it's necessary to keep things fresh. But the idea that they "need" to keep pushing the envelope is nonsensical.

CPVet:
Then what was the park’s motivation for building the tallest/fastest/longest/most inversions on a wing, dive and hybrid coaster?

Because it's low-hanging fruit. If you're going to build a particular type of coaster, the incremental cost to make it the "-est" is not that much.

And, as you point out, they could achieve the "tallest multi-launch LSM coaster" without building any spike at all. And yet there are folks here and elsewhere suggesting that the park "MUST" build a 500' spike because CP's marketing team used a certain word in their Tweet or whatever.

Insanity. Gotta love the offseason.

mgou58:

or relocation of the queue itself

Oh dear 🙄 I really hope your trolling

Who exactly in this thread is insisting (or even suggesting) there will be a 500 foot spike?

I keep reading all these "not using common logic or sense" or "fanboy" admonitions, but the speculation I am reading is simply whether the triangular form and work done to-date in the lagoon is indicative of a footer for a potential back spike.

I would further stipulate that "common sense and logic," using inferential reasoning and circumstantial evidence, would point more strongly toward the work being done to-date in fact being the foundation for a large support structure for a back spike than something else, particularly "lagoon maintenance." It's weird to be castigated for doing what lots of scientists do: look at the observable data, its trends, and make a reasonable inferential prediction -- not certainty, but a reasonable prediction with confidence levels surrounding it.

I think a decent case could be made at this point the deficit of common sense and logic is with those that criticize the reasonable inferences people are making here: specifically, CP is in the process of adding a substantial back spike to former TTD (read: not 500 feet).

veritas55:

Who exactly in this thread is insisting (or even suggesting) there will be a 500 foot spike?

Over the last few days alone it's been brought up a few times.

To my mind it seems to be brought up more often than people claiming there will be no spike. So I guess I would turn the question around. Who exactly in this thread over the last few days is insisting the park isn't constructing a spike footer?

I'll admit it with no shame, I'm a firm believer that there will be a spike of some sort. I won't speculate on how high, or if it will be twisted or not.

Edit: I'm such a firm believer in the spike, if I'm wrong, i'm willing to back up my words with a beverage of choice in the park to anybody that thinks otherwise.

A spike seems quite likely, yes.

But some of the height speculation, especially in that video from Station Wait, has been crazy. The video from Station Wait compares the spike footer size with the size of MF's lift hill footers and concludes, with adorably-ignorant confidence, that this spike footer can support a 600' spike. Never mind the fact that the load scenarios for a lift hill versus a spike are nothing alike, or that they're "measuring" the footer via drone video, etc., etc.